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	<title>Comments on: Open thread: Follow the rules?</title>
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	<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/25/open-thread-follow-the-rules/</link>
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		<title>By: Lucy</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/25/open-thread-follow-the-rules/#comment-101017</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3239#comment-101017</guid>
		<description>After the picky eating discussion, this Onion piece kind of cracked me up:
http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/people_like_food

Somebody ought to send this to MeMe Roth!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After the picky eating discussion, this Onion piece kind of cracked me up:<br />
<a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/people_like_food" rel="nofollow">http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/people_like_food</a></p>
<p>Somebody ought to send this to MeMe Roth!</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/25/open-thread-follow-the-rules/#comment-100989</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3239#comment-100989</guid>
		<description>I had an abusive, controlling step-father when I was growing up, who made the rule that I wasn&#039;t allowed to have anything to drink after supper (usually around 5pm) until I got up in the morning, because I was prone to wetting the bed.  

When I stayed with my Aunt, he had her follow the rule.  She was definitely uncomfortable about restricting my access to water, and tried to devise ways to let me have something to drink without directly breaking his rule, but it never worked.

Your friend should give the kids whatever they want to eat.  Anything.  If they&#039;re going to grow up with the type of person who would put a three-year-old on a diet, they&#039;re going to need a family member who&#039;s on their side to get through it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had an abusive, controlling step-father when I was growing up, who made the rule that I wasn&#8217;t allowed to have anything to drink after supper (usually around 5pm) until I got up in the morning, because I was prone to wetting the bed.  </p>
<p>When I stayed with my Aunt, he had her follow the rule.  She was definitely uncomfortable about restricting my access to water, and tried to devise ways to let me have something to drink without directly breaking his rule, but it never worked.</p>
<p>Your friend should give the kids whatever they want to eat.  Anything.  If they&#8217;re going to grow up with the type of person who would put a three-year-old on a diet, they&#8217;re going to need a family member who&#8217;s on their side to get through it.</p>
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		<title>By: chava</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/25/open-thread-follow-the-rules/#comment-100891</link>
		<dc:creator>chava</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3239#comment-100891</guid>
		<description>Lol--in my family it is all very glucose related.  To this day, give ME a juice box and I&#039;ll calm down.  Downside of that is that everyone, including children, knows to ask if I need a sammich.  

I try to think about it from the persepctive of the child--it is a learned and uncomfortable process to not yell and cry at every damn painful thing in the day.  Heaven knows sometimes *I* want to have a breakdown three times a day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lol&#8211;in my family it is all very glucose related.  To this day, give ME a juice box and I&#8217;ll calm down.  Downside of that is that everyone, including children, knows to ask if I need a sammich.  </p>
<p>I try to think about it from the persepctive of the child&#8211;it is a learned and uncomfortable process to not yell and cry at every damn painful thing in the day.  Heaven knows sometimes *I* want to have a breakdown three times a day.</p>
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		<title>By: volcanista</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/25/open-thread-follow-the-rules/#comment-100878</link>
		<dc:creator>volcanista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3239#comment-100878</guid>
		<description>omg, haha, I used to think that being soothing and listening and giving a juice box was enough to calm a tantrum, and for many kids it is --- but then there was my youngest brother. He taught us ALL a lesson in tantrum behavior. There are definitely those kids with whom you just have to wait it out, and telling him to calm down would never have worked. Though fwiw, I don&#039;t think it is necessarily as patronizing to remind a child that they are worked up and that calming down is a good idea (and an option), not the way it is to tell an adult to calm down. Kids are learning to regulate their emotions and responses, so reminders and words can help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>omg, haha, I used to think that being soothing and listening and giving a juice box was enough to calm a tantrum, and for many kids it is &#8212; but then there was my youngest brother. He taught us ALL a lesson in tantrum behavior. There are definitely those kids with whom you just have to wait it out, and telling him to calm down would never have worked. Though fwiw, I don&#8217;t think it is necessarily as patronizing to remind a child that they are worked up and that calming down is a good idea (and an option), not the way it is to tell an adult to calm down. Kids are learning to regulate their emotions and responses, so reminders and words can help.</p>
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		<title>By: chava</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/25/open-thread-follow-the-rules/#comment-100873</link>
		<dc:creator>chava</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3239#comment-100873</guid>
		<description>I think Caitlin also pointed out, as I did in my comment, that a glass of juice or a nap would also be helpful in getting small children to chill out/calm down in most cases.  Generally there is a reason they are cranky, but at least I still run through the &quot;allright, relax, we use inside voices here&quot; routine.


Yes, children have emotions and preferences.  Still, it seems to me that there is a trade off that is part of growing older, i.e. more responsibility and control versus less control but more care when younger.  My child doesn&#039;t have to *like* everything I cook, but yes, she needs to be polite about it.  But then, as volcanista mentioned, I was largely discussing bad behavior, not simple preferences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Caitlin also pointed out, as I did in my comment, that a glass of juice or a nap would also be helpful in getting small children to chill out/calm down in most cases.  Generally there is a reason they are cranky, but at least I still run through the &#8220;allright, relax, we use inside voices here&#8221; routine.</p>
<p>Yes, children have emotions and preferences.  Still, it seems to me that there is a trade off that is part of growing older, i.e. more responsibility and control versus less control but more care when younger.  My child doesn&#8217;t have to *like* everything I cook, but yes, she needs to be polite about it.  But then, as volcanista mentioned, I was largely discussing bad behavior, not simple preferences.</p>
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		<title>By: chava</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/25/open-thread-follow-the-rules/#comment-100872</link>
		<dc:creator>chava</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3239#comment-100872</guid>
		<description>The &quot;calm down&quot; comment was me.  I agree it might not work in all situations, or for all children, and certainly not if you say it in a prissy manner.  Soothing and &quot;ok, what&#039;s wrong, this is not an ok response, but take some deep breaths&quot; to a temper tantrum (what I was discussing) isn&#039;t an irrational response.

It works for me, that&#039;s all I can give you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;calm down&#8221; comment was me.  I agree it might not work in all situations, or for all children, and certainly not if you say it in a prissy manner.  Soothing and &#8220;ok, what&#8217;s wrong, this is not an ok response, but take some deep breaths&#8221; to a temper tantrum (what I was discussing) isn&#8217;t an irrational response.</p>
<p>It works for me, that&#8217;s all I can give you.</p>
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		<title>By: volcanista</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/25/open-thread-follow-the-rules/#comment-100867</link>
		<dc:creator>volcanista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3239#comment-100867</guid>
		<description>friendly daughter, I totally see what you&#039;re saying, because yeah, having a lot of small children is completely exhausting. It doesn&#039;t make it TRUE that kids who don&#039;t want to eat what you&#039;ve made aren&#039;t hungry enough, though. Their preferences are real and legitimate things. It just means you can&#039;t accomodate them because you can&#039;t, end of story. You do what you can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>friendly daughter, I totally see what you&#8217;re saying, because yeah, having a lot of small children is completely exhausting. It doesn&#8217;t make it TRUE that kids who don&#8217;t want to eat what you&#8217;ve made aren&#8217;t hungry enough, though. Their preferences are real and legitimate things. It just means you can&#8217;t accomodate them because you can&#8217;t, end of story. You do what you can.</p>
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		<title>By: Caitlin</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/25/open-thread-follow-the-rules/#comment-100864</link>
		<dc:creator>Caitlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3239#comment-100864</guid>
		<description>To be fair, when it comes to children I&#039;m oversimplifying. Many young children won&#039;t have the skills to recognise yet that they are too tired/hungry/dehydrated to think rationally at that point, and might benefit from having food/water/a nap before addressing whatever issues have arisen. 

But for older children, or children who are physically fine but angry/frustrated because their opinions and preferences are being ignored, &quot;calm down&quot; isn&#039;t usually helpful and is a good way to make it seem like the problem is all on their side. (How would you feel if you were consisently offered meals you didn&#039;t like/couldn&#039;t eat but lacked the capabilities to make yourself an alternative? Pretty fucking unhappy, is how I&#039;d feel. And while we can see that there are issues of limitied maternal resources -- time, money, energy, ability to be bothered -- a child old enough to have and express specific preferences may not get that.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair, when it comes to children I&#8217;m oversimplifying. Many young children won&#8217;t have the skills to recognise yet that they are too tired/hungry/dehydrated to think rationally at that point, and might benefit from having food/water/a nap before addressing whatever issues have arisen. </p>
<p>But for older children, or children who are physically fine but angry/frustrated because their opinions and preferences are being ignored, &#8220;calm down&#8221; isn&#8217;t usually helpful and is a good way to make it seem like the problem is all on their side. (How would you feel if you were consisently offered meals you didn&#8217;t like/couldn&#8217;t eat but lacked the capabilities to make yourself an alternative? Pretty fucking unhappy, is how I&#8217;d feel. And while we can see that there are issues of limitied maternal resources &#8212; time, money, energy, ability to be bothered &#8212; a child old enough to have and express specific preferences may not get that.)</p>
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		<title>By: Caitlin</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/25/open-thread-follow-the-rules/#comment-100862</link>
		<dc:creator>Caitlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:37:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3239#comment-100862</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I don’t remember who said it, but someone commented that they tell a child to calm down.

Does that work? My experience of telling anyone, child or adult, to calm down, is wholly ineffective. Often counterproductive, in fact.&lt;/i&gt;

Hah. My personal response to being told to calm down is to rise about 8 points on the rage scale. It&#039;s the complete arrogance of thinking you get to tell another person how to feel! Particularly since the person who feels the need to tell you to calm down is usually the person whose unreasonable behaviour created the problem in the first place.

And in a parent-child dynamic it very much reinforces the discourse that children aren&#039;t really people and don&#039;t have any legitimate emotions (&quot;You can exercise that option when you&#039;re older.) There is no quicker way to create a frustrated, problematic child, I can tell you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I don’t remember who said it, but someone commented that they tell a child to calm down.</p>
<p>Does that work? My experience of telling anyone, child or adult, to calm down, is wholly ineffective. Often counterproductive, in fact.</i></p>
<p>Hah. My personal response to being told to calm down is to rise about 8 points on the rage scale. It&#8217;s the complete arrogance of thinking you get to tell another person how to feel! Particularly since the person who feels the need to tell you to calm down is usually the person whose unreasonable behaviour created the problem in the first place.</p>
<p>And in a parent-child dynamic it very much reinforces the discourse that children aren&#8217;t really people and don&#8217;t have any legitimate emotions (&#8220;You can exercise that option when you&#8217;re older.) There is no quicker way to create a frustrated, problematic child, I can tell you.</p>
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		<title>By: Ailbhe</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/25/open-thread-follow-the-rules/#comment-100861</link>
		<dc:creator>Ailbhe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3239#comment-100861</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t remember who said it, but someone commented that they tell a  child to calm down.

Does that work?  My experience of telling anyone, child or adult, to calm down, is wholly ineffective. Often counterproductive, in fact.

But since I often ask my kids what they&#039;d like for dinner, I&#039;m probably some sort of downtrodden softie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t remember who said it, but someone commented that they tell a  child to calm down.</p>
<p>Does that work?  My experience of telling anyone, child or adult, to calm down, is wholly ineffective. Often counterproductive, in fact.</p>
<p>But since I often ask my kids what they&#8217;d like for dinner, I&#8217;m probably some sort of downtrodden softie.</p>
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