Comments on: Wait, you mean there are supposed to be WOMEN inside these clothes?

By: Samantha

Samantha — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:46:37 +0000

I shop at Ann Taylor and Ann Taylor Loft a lot. I have their credit card. Their clothes fit me REALLY, REALLY well — about the only place where I can pick a 12 or 14 or 12 or 14 petite off the rack and IT FITS — no long sleeves, misplaced darts, etc. etc.
However — my local Ann Taylor ALWAYS runs out of my size? Why, because it’s a pretty average size.
Well — I had a meltdown the other day and stayed on the phone for HOURS, to make them honor a coupon — you had to spend $150 to save $25. Well, they didn’t have half of the items I wanted in the size and color I needed, then other items weren’t offered online, and they weren’t going to honor the coupon if it was divided between online and instore…. none of these were clearance items, they were listed as “New Items” on the web site — when I demanded to know WHY they did not stock my size more sufficiently, as there were multiples in other sizes, they said “statistically it’s not in a high demand at your store.” BULL**** — then why are they always out of the size??!!
And that is my rant — as much as it made me angry, it’s hard to let go of a store that fits my hips and doesn’t have sleeves that are too long, and jackets that are too big in the shoulders and bust…
I so LOVE having ONE STORE where I can just GO BUY A SUIT!

By: Crissa

Crissa — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:31:23 +0000

What I wanna know is why oversize stores stopped selling size thirteen socks. Heck, it’s getting hard to find them in men’s stores.

I know my feet are big, but they’re not unusually big. Ugh.

By: Godless Heathen

Godless Heathen — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:13:07 +0000

I should do the same virtual boycotting with shoes too! I usually wear kids’ shoes, because manufacturers don’t seem to like to make size 5.5 shoes anymore (American sizes). No kidding. I used to work in shoes in an area with a large immigrant Chinese population. Sizes under 7 were widely popular, but it was so frustrating to have to tell half my customer base that our company didn't make shoes under a size 6. We couldn't order them because we didn't make them. Same with narrow sizes and extra narrow sizes, they were pretty much out of luck unless we had a few styles that fit tightly. We'd tell the company about it, and we'd get "blah blah blah profit margin blah blah" and three more truckloads of medium size 8's that nobody bought. *scream*

By: sf

sf — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 08:38:21 +0000

Totally true, Catatonic Kid! My sister is probably an extreme example — but last fall, after a summer working at a job that involved some pretty intense physical labor, she told me that she weighed about 190 pounds, and was wearing a size 9/10. (And yes, you should have SEEN those biceps. Terrifying! Haha.) At 190, I think I was about a size 16, and we’re exactly the same height. I’m also sure that she’s been lighter and worn a size 14/16. Weight- size relationships are definitely not fixed.

By: Catatonic Kid

Catatonic Kid — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 08:04:01 +0000

@CassandraSays – Indeed. Pick a random weight out of the air, it won’t tell you a thing about what someone looks like. And it certainly won’t give you the faintest clue as to how to make a toga for someone let alone a slim-lined pair of jeans.

What part of ‘lies, damn lies and statistics’ does the Fashion industry truly find so difficult to grasp? Oh, wait, it’s their job not to care. Silly me, I forgot –
fatalistic indifference is the new black. ;)

By: CassandraSays

CassandraSays — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 07:38:50 +0000

Catatonic Kid – Yeah, that. Two women can be the same height and weight and have totally different proportions, and be totally different sizes. Over on Jezebel recently I saw people making bold generalisations like “well so a woman who’s 130 pounds would be a size 10″, and, um, how do you know that? Is she heavier on top or on the bottom? Apple or pear? Muscular or no? Bodies, they vary

By: Catatonic Kid

Catatonic Kid — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 07:17:43 +0000

Bigoted, lazy and trapped in insane mass market hell. It isn’t hard to make clothes that fit. It’s called professional tailoring and has been going on for quite some time now.

My question, re: the article specifically, is why do they talk in terms of weight at all?! Wouldn’t it make more sense, in terms of design, to be talking about average body proportions/structures rather than specific weight brackets?

By: CassandraSays

CassandraSays — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 06:05:20 +0000

IrishUp – Since you posted all the cool charts, do you know if there’s one that maps clothes sizes in the same way? Ie X percent of women are a 2, Y percent are a 10, Z percent are an 18, etc. That’s what would give a realistic idea of what the marketplace actually needs in terms of sizes.

It strikes me as wierd that it’s so hard to find that information. I mean I’ve looked…makes you wonder WHY it’s so hard to find that information.

By: Rebecca V

Rebecca V — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 00:34:00 +0000

At the end of the article Postrel says, “It’s a practical way to give women with relatively uncommon bodies clothes that might actually fit.” I gotta say, I love shopping online. I’ve been buying books, computer parts, small appliances, heck even large appliances online for years. I buy most Christmas presents online. In the past year, I’ve come to love shopping for clothes online for the reason Postrel says. I have a range of choices that I have never had in a brick and mortar store. Also I can support small merchants who seem to want my business and care about making quality goods in my size. I’ve bought some lovely things in the past few months particularly, since I started reading this site and Fatshionista with your many recommendations to great merchants. And I’ve been very, very fortunate in that I haven’t had to send anything back except for a couple bras, and that was to a merchant with a decent return policy.

BUT!!! But and however! . . . That still doesn’t erase the fact that the World Does Not Fit. These tiny, recent exceptions do not outweigh 40 years of walking into stores and walking right out again because the World Is Too Small. I capitalize those statements because they are shorthand for rants I have made over and over again.

Nothing is made to fit me. It’s not just that I’m a fat woman. I’m a supersized woman, so even plus-size stores are too small. I’m not just supersized, I have a big belly and small breasts, so tops don’t fit right. I have long arms and long legs for a woman, so “3/4″ or “bracelet” length sleeves stop at my elbows — and are often very tight — and all pants are flood pants. I have size 12 ww feet, so I can’t buy shoes and socks. I have a big head, so I can’t buy hats. I have big hands, so I can’t buy gloves or bangle bracelets. I can’t buy random jewellry because necklaces are too short, bracelets are too small, and rings don’t even go on my pinky past the first joint.

Reminds me of a comedien I saw on TV probably about 20 years ago. No idea what her name was. She was a plus-sized woman, and (unfortunately) part of her set was talking about how big she was but (fortunately) not in a bad way. She said:

“I actually found something that fit in a petites store the other day.”

(light bogglement from audience)

“It was a pair of earrings.”

(relieved laughter)

“Of course I had to lie down on the bed to put them on.”

Badum-bum

But the point is, the world does not fit. Never has. I know a lot of people for whom the world doesn’t fit. My brother and I can rant back and forth about this for hours. My brother is 6’3″. He’s not fat, but he’s got the same restrictions I do on clothes shopping, specialty stores or bupkus. He’s got size 15 feet. Finding shoes sucks even more for him than it does for me. At least no matter how bad it got I could find sneakers and pennyloafers, which were not sexy but did do the job. He does not know what it is like to buy a pair of gloves where the webbing in between the fingers isn’t an inch above the webbing between his fingers. Hats don’t fit him either. I haven’t asked about jewellry. He’s not that progressive.

So why? Why do gloves only come in one size? Why do hats only come in one size? Why if they keep selling out of the 4x and 5x don’t stores order more 4x and 5x to begin with?

Actually, I know the answer to that one. I’ve been told by store owners that the manufacturer will not sell them their choice of sizes. If they want a particular style, they have to get, say, a bundle of 10 of them with whatever distribution of sizes the manufacturer has already decided. And generally there’s only one 4x or 5x in the pack. But that just pushes the question back a level. Why do the manufacturers only put one in the bundle?

I don’t know, and unlike Postrel I’m not going to say “A moment’s reflection suggests there must be another explanation.” That sounds like I’m trying to justify something I’ve pulled out of my ass. My guess is that the manufacturers are doing what’s easiest for them. It’s easier to manufacture gloves in one size. It’s easier to bundle sizes together, so a store that would otherwise order 8 has to get 10. It’s easier to move all your plus-sized clothes online so you concentrate that niche market in one place and leave more floorspace in the stores for your main market.

I thought this paragraph was going to make some point about how it may be good for them but it’s bad for me and I don’t like it. I couldn’t get it to come out right, though. It’s too long since I’ve had a horse in that race for me to care about them any more.

My question is, if the world is not made to fit me, or my brother, or most of my friends, or most of the people here, who is the world made to fit? How are these companies even making money? It’s just never made sense to me. How can so many people be so dissatisfied with the stuff out there, and yet the stuff keeps selling, and the stores stay in business? I don’t get it. Something is wrong here, but I have no idea what.

By: Jen

Jen — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:48:34 +0000

Loads of people up thread have said this, and speaking as someone designs clothing, I can tell you that you’re all spot on: The fit for ANY size is highly specialized, and what’s happening is that people are getting lazy. Some brands actually take the time to pick a type of fit (AKA, a type of body or set of proportions) they are going to be known for. Then they design their clothing from scratch based on that, and grade (size up and down) the clothing accordingly.

But a lot of the time brands are just ripping each other off, buying another store’s product and taking it back to their studios for copying and altering. Or starting with a pre-fab sloper (pattern) and so they mostly just tweak the detailing, not the fit. Hence why my “itty bitty waist with a round thing in your face” has has to resort to either totally ripping apart every pair of jeans I buy, or making my own at home, for the last 2-3 years, as skinny jeans have become popular (which I love) but all will either pull at my man-calves, gape at the small of my back, or both. And I am of a size that I can still easily shop in stores – “easily” meaning that in the loosest sense they having things in stock that “fit”.

I don’t even think laziness is the catch word really, but greed. How many units do you really have to sell for an endeavor to be worthwhile? Does every industry really benefit from economies of scale? Which brings me to another point that although larger size use more fabric per garment, when you start to buy more fabric, up to a point, it becomes much cheaper per yard/gram. And once a factory is ramped up to run a range of sizes, the more they run of those sizes, the cheaper it is to manufacture them per garment. So actually the only way I can see most stores saving by not stocking larger sizes or only stocking them for web orders is that they may have less total cash outlay because they will cut fewer pieces and won’t have to ship them to stores. But the garments then become more expensive per piece, and their customer service outlay goes way up due to higher processing of returns, and possible freight increases as they work to have quicker turnaround time from factories so they can stock fewer items and base their factory re-buys on accumulating web sales. (Er, why yes, my day job is for an apparel manufacturer in customer service, funny you should ask :).)

Anyway, there is no good reason why people aren’t filling a huge portion of the market share except that they are thinking short term and not long term. They are thinking ‘What can I toss overboard to save weight before the end of Q4 ’09 so that the end of year report looks better to my shareholders?” That is so, so, so different than “What kind of patterns and factory relationships can I develop in the midst of this downturn that will ensure I meet the needs of the market better so when things turn around so my business can thrive in the long run?”