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	<title>Comments on: Retro fat: Open thread</title>
	<atom:link href="http://kateharding.net/2009/06/10/retro-fat-open-thread/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/10/retro-fat-open-thread/</link>
	<description>2007-2010</description>
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		<title>By: moonridden</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/10/retro-fat-open-thread/#comment-99215</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[moonridden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3133#comment-99215</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Shine along&quot; is antiquated slang for move along.  &quot;Shine along now, Jimmy&quot;, &amp;c.  Seems to indicate that there aren&#039;t any hoops (for hoopskirts) big enough to fit over her, that is move along her sides.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Shine along&#8221; is antiquated slang for move along.  &#8220;Shine along now, Jimmy&#8221;, &amp;c.  Seems to indicate that there aren&#8217;t any hoops (for hoopskirts) big enough to fit over her, that is move along her sides.</p>
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		<title>By: Marjean Fieldhouse</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/10/retro-fat-open-thread/#comment-98951</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marjean Fieldhouse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3133#comment-98951</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder if it could be an advertisement for a 19th century prostitute. Many cities had broadsheets that advertised the local working girls and their specialties and could be quite graphic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if it could be an advertisement for a 19th century prostitute. Many cities had broadsheets that advertised the local working girls and their specialties and could be quite graphic.</p>
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		<title>By: Deb</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/10/retro-fat-open-thread/#comment-98917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3133#comment-98917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I collect Victorian magazines and one of my favourite  things is a weekly section in The Girl&#039;s Own Paper (Which published from the mid 1800&#039;s to the 1930&#039;s) called  &quot; Dress, in season  and in reason&quot;.

 Just reading about what was considered a suitable outfit for the summer of 1880 makes me want to swoon from heatstroke! But alongside the fashion plates and advice to wear a corset to bed to &quot;train&quot; the waistline   there were articles by &quot;Medicus&quot; warning about  the dangers of tight lacing and horror stories about women puncturing their lungs with their own crushed rib cages !

A bit like today&#039;s size zero debate in fact.where clothes are displayed on tiny models on one page and the editors lament about young women&#039;s poor self image on another.

Meanwhile all dress patterns were offered in 
&quot; Medium.viz bust 34&quot;

The illustrations were of improbably proportioned women and adverts for the Edwardian  S Bend corsets which gave the exaggerated bust and bum line are quite alarming. But it was amusing to read of a young lady who wore too large a &quot; Dress Improver&quot; ( bustle) so that as she walked it  &quot; Wagged behind her like a discontented kitten&quot;. There was also the fast young hussy of the 1920&#039;s who was censured for  wearing scanty underwear  and, in the same article told that it was terribly bad form to waste material and labour by having embroidered trimmings on the knees of her knickers. This was the time when breasts were bound flat by elastic  bust bodices to get the boyish flapper look which was all the rage. And also the time when the balance of articles shifted to incorporate many more diet and exercise routines lest those &quot;naughty curves&quot; should spoil the line of your bias cut gown.

I guess nothing much changes only now it&#039;s miracle knickers and lycra shape garments which are advertised to try and make us mould our fat into an &quot;acceptable&quot; shape and the freak shows are on TV under the guise of public interest and information rather than in the fairground booths.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I collect Victorian magazines and one of my favourite  things is a weekly section in The Girl&#8217;s Own Paper (Which published from the mid 1800&#8242;s to the 1930&#8242;s) called  &#8221; Dress, in season  and in reason&#8221;.</p>
<p> Just reading about what was considered a suitable outfit for the summer of 1880 makes me want to swoon from heatstroke! But alongside the fashion plates and advice to wear a corset to bed to &#8220;train&#8221; the waistline   there were articles by &#8220;Medicus&#8221; warning about  the dangers of tight lacing and horror stories about women puncturing their lungs with their own crushed rib cages !</p>
<p>A bit like today&#8217;s size zero debate in fact.where clothes are displayed on tiny models on one page and the editors lament about young women&#8217;s poor self image on another.</p>
<p>Meanwhile all dress patterns were offered in<br />
&#8221; Medium.viz bust 34&#8243;</p>
<p>The illustrations were of improbably proportioned women and adverts for the Edwardian  S Bend corsets which gave the exaggerated bust and bum line are quite alarming. But it was amusing to read of a young lady who wore too large a &#8221; Dress Improver&#8221; ( bustle) so that as she walked it  &#8221; Wagged behind her like a discontented kitten&#8221;. There was also the fast young hussy of the 1920&#8242;s who was censured for  wearing scanty underwear  and, in the same article told that it was terribly bad form to waste material and labour by having embroidered trimmings on the knees of her knickers. This was the time when breasts were bound flat by elastic  bust bodices to get the boyish flapper look which was all the rage. And also the time when the balance of articles shifted to incorporate many more diet and exercise routines lest those &#8220;naughty curves&#8221; should spoil the line of your bias cut gown.</p>
<p>I guess nothing much changes only now it&#8217;s miracle knickers and lycra shape garments which are advertised to try and make us mould our fat into an &#8220;acceptable&#8221; shape and the freak shows are on TV under the guise of public interest and information rather than in the fairground booths.</p>
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		<title>By: Rosa</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/10/retro-fat-open-thread/#comment-98860</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rosa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 03:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3133#comment-98860</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mara, Lu, Kathy A, all the Wilder fans - Louise Erdrich has a series of YA books set in about the same time period (the first I think is 1847) in northern Wisconsin and Minnesota, where the main character is a little Ojibwe/metis girl with an older sister &amp; a little brother.
 
In the second and third books, the girls have a white friend (who they can&#039;t talk to, since they only speak Anishanaabe and she only speaks English) who they call the Breakapart Girl because her waist is so tiny - and then they all go swimming and see her corset and are relieved to know why she&#039;s shaped that way.

They&#039;re really wonderful books &amp; they have a lot of echoes of the Little House books (which I was raised on and are all sitting on a shelf by me right now)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mara, Lu, Kathy A, all the Wilder fans &#8211; Louise Erdrich has a series of YA books set in about the same time period (the first I think is 1847) in northern Wisconsin and Minnesota, where the main character is a little Ojibwe/metis girl with an older sister &amp; a little brother.</p>
<p>In the second and third books, the girls have a white friend (who they can&#8217;t talk to, since they only speak Anishanaabe and she only speaks English) who they call the Breakapart Girl because her waist is so tiny &#8211; and then they all go swimming and see her corset and are relieved to know why she&#8217;s shaped that way.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re really wonderful books &amp; they have a lot of echoes of the Little House books (which I was raised on and are all sitting on a shelf by me right now)</p>
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		<title>By: men_in_full</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/10/retro-fat-open-thread/#comment-98841</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[men_in_full]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 23:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3133#comment-98841</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, &lt;b&gt;Katia&lt;/b&gt; - I never thought Jo&#039;s husband Professor Bhaer (Bear? LOL) was ridiculous either.  He&#039;s also described as &#039;stout,&#039; and I think at the end of either &lt;i&gt;Little Women&lt;/i&gt; or &lt;i&gt;Little Men&lt;/i&gt; is described as &quot;having grown stouter still,&quot; or something like that.

Did Louisa May Alcott really not like him as a character?  She didn&#039;t give him a lot of face-time in &lt;i&gt;Little Men&lt;/i&gt;, but when he does show up he&#039;s always wonderful.  I remember reading somewhere that LMA&#039;s 19th c. &quot;fangirls&quot; were very upset when she introduced Bhaer (nothing new under the sun, eh? :D )

* * * *

As far as the newspaper clipping goes, IMO it represents a strongly conflicted 19th c. American view about fat people.  On one hand there&#039;s some admiration (she&#039;s described as &quot;great,&quot; for instance, not &quot;sick&quot; or &quot;disgusting&quot;) but at the same time she *is* an object of a variety of teasing.  I am reading about &quot;fat men&#039;s clubs&quot; (which were all over the country at one time) and sometimes the newspapers report on them in the same tone.  It&#039;s horrified fascination, yes, but IMO the tone is a lot more balanced and perhaps even more humane than what we see today.

Thanks for posting it - I love these snippets of the past.

Stef from men_in_full]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, <b>Katia</b> &#8211; I never thought Jo&#8217;s husband Professor Bhaer (Bear? LOL) was ridiculous either.  He&#8217;s also described as &#8216;stout,&#8217; and I think at the end of either <i>Little Women</i> or <i>Little Men</i> is described as &#8220;having grown stouter still,&#8221; or something like that.</p>
<p>Did Louisa May Alcott really not like him as a character?  She didn&#8217;t give him a lot of face-time in <i>Little Men</i>, but when he does show up he&#8217;s always wonderful.  I remember reading somewhere that LMA&#8217;s 19th c. &#8220;fangirls&#8221; were very upset when she introduced Bhaer (nothing new under the sun, eh? :D )</p>
<p>* * * *</p>
<p>As far as the newspaper clipping goes, IMO it represents a strongly conflicted 19th c. American view about fat people.  On one hand there&#8217;s some admiration (she&#8217;s described as &#8220;great,&#8221; for instance, not &#8220;sick&#8221; or &#8220;disgusting&#8221;) but at the same time she *is* an object of a variety of teasing.  I am reading about &#8220;fat men&#8217;s clubs&#8221; (which were all over the country at one time) and sometimes the newspapers report on them in the same tone.  It&#8217;s horrified fascination, yes, but IMO the tone is a lot more balanced and perhaps even more humane than what we see today.</p>
<p>Thanks for posting it &#8211; I love these snippets of the past.</p>
<p>Stef from men_in_full</p>
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		<title>By: Earwig</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/10/retro-fat-open-thread/#comment-98815</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Earwig]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3133#comment-98815</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Elise - thanks for the apology - that takes strength.    

You said, &quot;I’m not as ok with my body as I’d like to be and I still have a thing or two to learn.&quot;  

I think there&#039;s a lot of us out there like that - self acceptance is a hard beastie to manage.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Elise &#8211; thanks for the apology &#8211; that takes strength.    </p>
<p>You said, &#8220;I’m not as ok with my body as I’d like to be and I still have a thing or two to learn.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s a lot of us out there like that &#8211; self acceptance is a hard beastie to manage.</p>
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		<title>By: maryjblog</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/10/retro-fat-open-thread/#comment-98788</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maryjblog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3133#comment-98788</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: the Little House thing:

It&#039;s not surprising that Pa approved of Laura&#039;s &quot;stoutness,&quot; while Ma was giving her shit about wearing the corset - it&#039;s not uncommon for fathers, then and now, to want to keep their daughters &quot;down on the farm&quot; while many moms, then and now start worrying early on about making their daughters marriagable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: the Little House thing:</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not surprising that Pa approved of Laura&#8217;s &#8220;stoutness,&#8221; while Ma was giving her shit about wearing the corset &#8211; it&#8217;s not uncommon for fathers, then and now, to want to keep their daughters &#8220;down on the farm&#8221; while many moms, then and now start worrying early on about making their daughters marriagable.</p>
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		<title>By: maryjblog</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/10/retro-fat-open-thread/#comment-98785</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maryjblog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3133#comment-98785</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think we&#039;ve got an antebellum chubby chaser here, myself. The author seems genuinely intrigued by the 518-lb. woman - can&#039;t stop thinking about her.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we&#8217;ve got an antebellum chubby chaser here, myself. The author seems genuinely intrigued by the 518-lb. woman &#8211; can&#8217;t stop thinking about her.</p>
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		<title>By: Eucritta</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/10/retro-fat-open-thread/#comment-98766</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eucritta]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3133#comment-98766</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Also, wooden barrel hoops were and continue to be made of iron rather than steel, and I&#039;ve never heard of one made of whalebone ... which was, btw, baleen and not bone.

(takes off material culture dork hat)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, wooden barrel hoops were and continue to be made of iron rather than steel, and I&#8217;ve never heard of one made of whalebone &#8230; which was, btw, baleen and not bone.</p>
<p>(takes off material culture dork hat)</p>
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		<title>By: The Bald Soprano</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/06/10/retro-fat-open-thread/#comment-98763</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Bald Soprano]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3133#comment-98763</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[oldfeminist: given that the hoops in hoop skirts were at that time made from whalebone and steel, I&#039;d think that explanation much more likely than barrels.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oldfeminist: given that the hoops in hoop skirts were at that time made from whalebone and steel, I&#8217;d think that explanation much more likely than barrels.</p>
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