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	<title>Comments on: The nocebo effect</title>
	<atom:link href="http://kateharding.net/2009/05/16/quick-hit-the-nocebo-effect/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/05/16/quick-hit-the-nocebo-effect/</link>
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		<title>By: Richelle</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/05/16/quick-hit-the-nocebo-effect/#comment-97904</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richelle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3027#comment-97904</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On a semi-related note, as a person with severe depression, every time I hear a report about how much earlier people with depression die than people who don&#039;t, I have to think &quot;And just imagine!  By telling me that, you&#039;ve just given me the means, through an exquisitely crafted positive feedback mechanism, to accelerate the process substantially!  Thanks a load!&quot;

I often see these reports offered in the spirit of making people take depression more seriously by pointing out its physical manifestations.  That&#039;s fine.  (However, isn&#039;t the fact that someone says zie&#039;s suffering significant enough, even without measurable physical manifestations?)  But it can be a singularly unhelpful point for me, personally.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a semi-related note, as a person with severe depression, every time I hear a report about how much earlier people with depression die than people who don&#8217;t, I have to think &#8220;And just imagine!  By telling me that, you&#8217;ve just given me the means, through an exquisitely crafted positive feedback mechanism, to accelerate the process substantially!  Thanks a load!&#8221;</p>
<p>I often see these reports offered in the spirit of making people take depression more seriously by pointing out its physical manifestations.  That&#8217;s fine.  (However, isn&#8217;t the fact that someone says zie&#8217;s suffering significant enough, even without measurable physical manifestations?)  But it can be a singularly unhelpful point for me, personally.</p>
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		<title>By: iheartchocolat</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/05/16/quick-hit-the-nocebo-effect/#comment-96334</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[iheartchocolat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 20:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3027#comment-96334</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can heartily agree with the nocebo effect.  I have a nocebo, a guy.  I have been in a relationship (not the right word, but I can&#039;t think of any other to describe it) with this guy for 3 years.  And due to my circumstances, etc., I&#039;m stuck dealing with him.  I&#039;ve alluded to him here, and on ning before.  He&#039;s mr. privileged white male (tm) with a huge insecurity complex on top of it.  Since I&#039;ve known him, I&#039;ve become more concerned with my appearance, I compare myself to other women more often, my stress levels have gone up, I&#039;m more irritable and defensive....when I&#039;m around him I have serious heartburn, I want to be lazy, and most time, just want to go to sleep.  It took me over a year to realize this, so I have more control of it, in lieu of actually leaving the situation.  But it amazed me how quickly I changed from a woman with a pretty good self-image, one more concerned with thoughts and ideals rather than the superficial, to an insecure and unhappy woman.  Amazing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can heartily agree with the nocebo effect.  I have a nocebo, a guy.  I have been in a relationship (not the right word, but I can&#8217;t think of any other to describe it) with this guy for 3 years.  And due to my circumstances, etc., I&#8217;m stuck dealing with him.  I&#8217;ve alluded to him here, and on ning before.  He&#8217;s mr. privileged white male &#8482; with a huge insecurity complex on top of it.  Since I&#8217;ve known him, I&#8217;ve become more concerned with my appearance, I compare myself to other women more often, my stress levels have gone up, I&#8217;m more irritable and defensive&#8230;.when I&#8217;m around him I have serious heartburn, I want to be lazy, and most time, just want to go to sleep.  It took me over a year to realize this, so I have more control of it, in lieu of actually leaving the situation.  But it amazed me how quickly I changed from a woman with a pretty good self-image, one more concerned with thoughts and ideals rather than the superficial, to an insecure and unhappy woman.  Amazing.</p>
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		<title>By: volcanista</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/05/16/quick-hit-the-nocebo-effect/#comment-96300</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[volcanista]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 18:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3027#comment-96300</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Because, of course, the bodies of thin 31-year-old women never ache, hurt, cramp up, or give them signals that maybe they should be just a little bit gentler to them.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, THIS! Ha! As a thin woman, I promise this is not the case. So does my back.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Because, of course, the bodies of thin 31-year-old women never ache, hurt, cramp up, or give them signals that maybe they should be just a little bit gentler to them.</i></p>
<p>Yes, THIS! Ha! As a thin woman, I promise this is not the case. So does my back.</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/05/16/quick-hit-the-nocebo-effect/#comment-96294</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kelly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 17:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3027#comment-96294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;But at the time, the first explanation that came to my mind was “I’m too fat!” &lt;/i&gt;

I have done that. Usually when I&#039;ve been &lt;i&gt;sick&lt;/i&gt;, with allergies or a cold, then get winded while doing something I can normally do. My mind always jumps to &quot;ZOMG IT&#039;S BECAUSE I&#039;M FAT!&quot; and only later comes around to &quot;...um, self, you&#039;ve had RESPIRATORY ILLNESS, maybe your lungs aren&#039;t quite back up to their usual capacity yet?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But at the time, the first explanation that came to my mind was “I’m too fat!” </i></p>
<p>I have done that. Usually when I&#8217;ve been <i>sick</i>, with allergies or a cold, then get winded while doing something I can normally do. My mind always jumps to &#8220;ZOMG IT&#8217;S BECAUSE I&#8217;M FAT!&#8221; and only later comes around to &#8220;&#8230;um, self, you&#8217;ve had RESPIRATORY ILLNESS, maybe your lungs aren&#8217;t quite back up to their usual capacity yet?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Lori</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/05/16/quick-hit-the-nocebo-effect/#comment-96274</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lori]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 15:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3027#comment-96274</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just want to add a personal anecdote about how all of the anti-fat stuff we hear constantly affects us, even if we rationally know better.

I&#039;m off for the summer, and with only one child and a very small home, I have a LOT of free time, and last week I thought it would be fun to challenge myself exercise-wise.  I normally walk about 3 miles every day, either all at once or 2 in the morning and 1 at night, which I enjoy a lot and which does wonders for my emotional stability.  Last week I decided to push myself and so I did a 4 mile walk/run every morning.  Then, on Friday, my fifth 4-mile day, I barely stretched because my son needed something just as I was finishing up, and then sat down at my computer to play The Sims, where I remained in the same position for about 3 hours.

When I got up from the computer, a muscle in my lower back was so cramped up that I was literally hobbling around the house and in really bad pain.  And, my first thought?  Not, &quot;Hmm, maybe I should have stretched more&quot; or &quot;Maybe walking 20 miles in 5 days wasn&#039;t the world&#039;s greatest idea&quot; or &quot;Shouldn&#039;t I have learned from my husband&#039;s back going out several times after extended sits in the desk chair that vegging out in that chair is a bad idea?&quot;

Nope, it was, &quot;OMG, I&#039;m too fat!  My body can&#039;t handle carrying around all my weight!  All of those dieters I&#039;ve had random encounters with over obesity-related topics on the internet who&#039;ve insisted that, despite my being active and healthy, my body would one day give out under the massive strain of the 200 lbs. on my 5&#039;8&quot; body were right!&quot;  My first conclusion was that the problem must be that I was too fat, and not that anybody, thin or not, who works out a lot for days, fails to stretch adequately, then sits in an uncomfortable chair for hours might cramp a muscle.  Because, of course, the bodies of thin 31-year-old women never ache, hurt, cramp up, or give them signals that maybe they should be just a little bit gentler to them.

Luckily after two days of really mild workouts (just to get  my muscles warm and then give me a chance to stretch them) and resting, the pain went away completely, and I&#039;ve been feeling good the last two days doing my normal workouts.  My husband, who is far closer to his &quot;ideal&quot; weight than I am, did 45 minutes of Wii Fit the other night then spent the next day on the couch pleading immobility, so that made me feel a bit better, as well.  And now, I realize how silly it was for me to attribute to my weight something that was far more easily explained by other things, and my assuming that if I were thin, I&#039;d be routinely doing hour-long aerobic workouts every day without so much as a sore muscle.  But at the time, the first explanation that came to my mind was &quot;I&#039;m too fat!&quot;  And, given that we&#039;re led to believe that anything and everything that goes wrong with our bodies, if we&#039;re fat, is because we&#039;re fat, I don&#039;t think my conclusion was particularly hard to understand, even if it wasn&#039;t based in reality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to add a personal anecdote about how all of the anti-fat stuff we hear constantly affects us, even if we rationally know better.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m off for the summer, and with only one child and a very small home, I have a LOT of free time, and last week I thought it would be fun to challenge myself exercise-wise.  I normally walk about 3 miles every day, either all at once or 2 in the morning and 1 at night, which I enjoy a lot and which does wonders for my emotional stability.  Last week I decided to push myself and so I did a 4 mile walk/run every morning.  Then, on Friday, my fifth 4-mile day, I barely stretched because my son needed something just as I was finishing up, and then sat down at my computer to play The Sims, where I remained in the same position for about 3 hours.</p>
<p>When I got up from the computer, a muscle in my lower back was so cramped up that I was literally hobbling around the house and in really bad pain.  And, my first thought?  Not, &#8220;Hmm, maybe I should have stretched more&#8221; or &#8220;Maybe walking 20 miles in 5 days wasn&#8217;t the world&#8217;s greatest idea&#8221; or &#8220;Shouldn&#8217;t I have learned from my husband&#8217;s back going out several times after extended sits in the desk chair that vegging out in that chair is a bad idea?&#8221;</p>
<p>Nope, it was, &#8220;OMG, I&#8217;m too fat!  My body can&#8217;t handle carrying around all my weight!  All of those dieters I&#8217;ve had random encounters with over obesity-related topics on the internet who&#8217;ve insisted that, despite my being active and healthy, my body would one day give out under the massive strain of the 200 lbs. on my 5&#8217;8&#8243; body were right!&#8221;  My first conclusion was that the problem must be that I was too fat, and not that anybody, thin or not, who works out a lot for days, fails to stretch adequately, then sits in an uncomfortable chair for hours might cramp a muscle.  Because, of course, the bodies of thin 31-year-old women never ache, hurt, cramp up, or give them signals that maybe they should be just a little bit gentler to them.</p>
<p>Luckily after two days of really mild workouts (just to get  my muscles warm and then give me a chance to stretch them) and resting, the pain went away completely, and I&#8217;ve been feeling good the last two days doing my normal workouts.  My husband, who is far closer to his &#8220;ideal&#8221; weight than I am, did 45 minutes of Wii Fit the other night then spent the next day on the couch pleading immobility, so that made me feel a bit better, as well.  And now, I realize how silly it was for me to attribute to my weight something that was far more easily explained by other things, and my assuming that if I were thin, I&#8217;d be routinely doing hour-long aerobic workouts every day without so much as a sore muscle.  But at the time, the first explanation that came to my mind was &#8220;I&#8217;m too fat!&#8221;  And, given that we&#8217;re led to believe that anything and everything that goes wrong with our bodies, if we&#8217;re fat, is because we&#8217;re fat, I don&#8217;t think my conclusion was particularly hard to understand, even if it wasn&#8217;t based in reality.</p>
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		<title>By: anwen</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/05/16/quick-hit-the-nocebo-effect/#comment-96242</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anwen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 10:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3027#comment-96242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;People who are pessimists believe that negative things that happen to them are their own fault, and that positive things that happen to them are a result of luck. &lt;/i&gt;

Actually, I don&#039;t agree with this. I&#039;m a fairly pessimistic sort, but I tend to think the other way round - if something goes right it&#039;s because I&#039;ve worked to make that happen and if something goes wrong it&#039;s in spite of my efforts to avoid it...

Ack @ the Secret. My DD&#039;s dad&#039;s mother gave me a book once called &quot;excuse me, your life is waiting&quot; and it was full of the same kind of crap, apparently little old ladies who get attacked while their homes are being burgled are also bringing it upon themselves by expecting such things to happen (and yeah, I think the Holocaust was mentioned...) Unfortunately the book was &quot;from her and DD&quot; so I had to pretend to like it for a bit until DD forgot about it and I could safely throw the damn thing in the bin.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>People who are pessimists believe that negative things that happen to them are their own fault, and that positive things that happen to them are a result of luck. </i></p>
<p>Actually, I don&#8217;t agree with this. I&#8217;m a fairly pessimistic sort, but I tend to think the other way round &#8211; if something goes right it&#8217;s because I&#8217;ve worked to make that happen and if something goes wrong it&#8217;s in spite of my efforts to avoid it&#8230;</p>
<p>Ack @ the Secret. My DD&#8217;s dad&#8217;s mother gave me a book once called &#8220;excuse me, your life is waiting&#8221; and it was full of the same kind of crap, apparently little old ladies who get attacked while their homes are being burgled are also bringing it upon themselves by expecting such things to happen (and yeah, I think the Holocaust was mentioned&#8230;) Unfortunately the book was &#8220;from her and DD&#8221; so I had to pretend to like it for a bit until DD forgot about it and I could safely throw the damn thing in the bin.</p>
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		<title>By: kristinc</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/05/16/quick-hit-the-nocebo-effect/#comment-96187</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kristinc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 23:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3027#comment-96187</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, as I was typing my comment I knew it was really flawed because I was leaving out the measurable effects stress has on health. So, true, definitely. 

But still, &quot;placebo&quot; is not another word for &quot;magic healing through the power of the mind&quot; as it&#039;s sometimes presented as shorthand for. More like &quot;the effect of thinking we *should* be getting better so we describe ourselves as getting better even though we&#039;re not.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, as I was typing my comment I knew it was really flawed because I was leaving out the measurable effects stress has on health. So, true, definitely. </p>
<p>But still, &#8220;placebo&#8221; is not another word for &#8220;magic healing through the power of the mind&#8221; as it&#8217;s sometimes presented as shorthand for. More like &#8220;the effect of thinking we *should* be getting better so we describe ourselves as getting better even though we&#8217;re not.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: aliciamaud74</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/05/16/quick-hit-the-nocebo-effect/#comment-96087</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[aliciamaud74]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 15:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3027#comment-96087</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@volcanista:  Ha.  Excellent.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@volcanista:  Ha.  Excellent.</p>
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		<title>By: spinsterwitch</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/05/16/quick-hit-the-nocebo-effect/#comment-96085</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinsterwitch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 15:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3027#comment-96085</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I haven&#039;t read through the whole comments extensively, so forgive any overlap in mine.  There are good studies that show the effects of stigma on health and mental health, so I can easily see how this study could be true.

I just went to a seminar about mindfulness and compassion on Friday where I heard John Kabat-Zinn tell the audience that we all need to befriend our bodies, just as they are.  I thought a choir of angels might just begin singing, I was so excited.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read through the whole comments extensively, so forgive any overlap in mine.  There are good studies that show the effects of stigma on health and mental health, so I can easily see how this study could be true.</p>
<p>I just went to a seminar about mindfulness and compassion on Friday where I heard John Kabat-Zinn tell the audience that we all need to befriend our bodies, just as they are.  I thought a choir of angels might just begin singing, I was so excited.</p>
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		<title>By: volcanista</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/05/16/quick-hit-the-nocebo-effect/#comment-96084</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[volcanista]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 15:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=3027#comment-96084</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;She gently pointed out, “Well. .. you’ve probably already noticed, but your head IS attached to the rest of your body.”&lt;/i&gt;

My response to this, obviously, would have to be &quot;SPEAK FOR YOURSELF.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>She gently pointed out, “Well. .. you’ve probably already noticed, but your head IS attached to the rest of your body.”</i></p>
<p>My response to this, obviously, would have to be &#8220;SPEAK FOR YOURSELF.&#8221;</p>
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