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	<title>Comments on: Quickly: The Amazon Thing</title>
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	<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/04/13/quickly-the-amazon-thing/</link>
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		<title>By: book kid</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/04/13/quickly-the-amazon-thing/#comment-90662</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[book kid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 05:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2799#comment-90662</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For non-amazon options, try Powells or Indiebound, which is a fantastic organization and website, which allows you to search local, independent bookstores online, or gives you links to websites of brick-and-mortar stores in your area that are not corporately owned. Your local bookstore also probably has a website where you can buy books through them or through the publisher, many local bookstores that dont&#039; do online orders will do special orders from the local distributer. 

@Lori, I dunno, it depends. The YA books getting deranked are pretty arbitrary, and though gay-themed YA does still come up many popular books have been de-listed. Notably Rainbow Boys by Alex Sanchez. 

@people who think that this was a hack or someone doing it &quot;for the lulz&quot;, there have been reports circulating on author/publishing industry/librarian blogs that authors were getting notifications re: being classified as &quot;adult&quot; as far back as February, and were told that they do not have any recourse to get their book un-listed.

About Kate&#039;s friends statement&quot; good people can work for companies that do bad things sometimes. And this is the sort of decision that would have come down more-or-less from the top. I&#039;m not inclined towards conspiracy thinking, but based on my understanding of the impact of amazons policies it would not surprise me in the least to learn that this was deliberate and intentional. When people hack amazon they make all the electronics $1, etc. They don&#039;t suddenly hide all the books that have obvious, labled, gay content. 

And recommending amazon because of its ubiquity is part of why it has become the behemoth that it is today.  Amazon is a huge corporation because people hear about it and do not consider investigating alternatives. Back in the bad old days the government would consider busting up monopolies like amazon that are &quot;fully integrated&quot; (and an earlier poster put it) into &quot;every aspect&quot; of peoples lives. 

I&#039;m sorry if this comes off as too vitriolic. I have spent years trying to discourage people from using amazon, and this is the first time they&#039;ve done something to really gain the attention of a wide swath of (potentially receptive) people. My entire family (more or less) is involved with independent books in some way and the actions that amazon has taken in the last ten years seem to have affected pretty much every level of the industry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For non-amazon options, try Powells or Indiebound, which is a fantastic organization and website, which allows you to search local, independent bookstores online, or gives you links to websites of brick-and-mortar stores in your area that are not corporately owned. Your local bookstore also probably has a website where you can buy books through them or through the publisher, many local bookstores that dont&#8217; do online orders will do special orders from the local distributer. </p>
<p>@Lori, I dunno, it depends. The YA books getting deranked are pretty arbitrary, and though gay-themed YA does still come up many popular books have been de-listed. Notably Rainbow Boys by Alex Sanchez. </p>
<p>@people who think that this was a hack or someone doing it &#8220;for the lulz&#8221;, there have been reports circulating on author/publishing industry/librarian blogs that authors were getting notifications re: being classified as &#8220;adult&#8221; as far back as February, and were told that they do not have any recourse to get their book un-listed.</p>
<p>About Kate&#8217;s friends statement&#8221; good people can work for companies that do bad things sometimes. And this is the sort of decision that would have come down more-or-less from the top. I&#8217;m not inclined towards conspiracy thinking, but based on my understanding of the impact of amazons policies it would not surprise me in the least to learn that this was deliberate and intentional. When people hack amazon they make all the electronics $1, etc. They don&#8217;t suddenly hide all the books that have obvious, labled, gay content. </p>
<p>And recommending amazon because of its ubiquity is part of why it has become the behemoth that it is today.  Amazon is a huge corporation because people hear about it and do not consider investigating alternatives. Back in the bad old days the government would consider busting up monopolies like amazon that are &#8220;fully integrated&#8221; (and an earlier poster put it) into &#8220;every aspect&#8221; of peoples lives. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry if this comes off as too vitriolic. I have spent years trying to discourage people from using amazon, and this is the first time they&#8217;ve done something to really gain the attention of a wide swath of (potentially receptive) people. My entire family (more or less) is involved with independent books in some way and the actions that amazon has taken in the last ten years seem to have affected pretty much every level of the industry.</p>
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		<title>By: Caitlin</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/04/13/quickly-the-amazon-thing/#comment-90586</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Caitlin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2799#comment-90586</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[...since it seems to sell itself as a more &quot;independent&quot; option, was the end of that.

Powell&#039;s are an independent gone nationwide, I believe.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;since it seems to sell itself as a more &#8220;independent&#8221; option, was the end of that.</p>
<p>Powell&#8217;s are an independent gone nationwide, I believe.</p>
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		<title>By: Caitlin</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/04/13/quickly-the-amazon-thing/#comment-90585</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Caitlin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2799#comment-90585</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[abebooks.com is owned by Amazon, cowsharky, which might be what you&#039;re thinking of? I know I was surprised about that,]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>abebooks.com is owned by Amazon, cowsharky, which might be what you&#8217;re thinking of? I know I was surprised about that,</p>
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		<title>By: cowsharky</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/04/13/quickly-the-amazon-thing/#comment-90581</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cowsharky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2799#comment-90581</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have a question for those who plan to avoid Amazon, at least for a while. I think either Borders or Barnes and Noble are associated with Amazon.com, but I can&#039;t tell which of the two is. I think Borders used to be through Amazon but parted ways a few years ago, but I&#039;m not sure. The problem is, if you go to either site, it&#039;s not exactly advertising Amazon ties if they are there (gee, I wonder why...). So, anyone know for certain whick of the two is the safe one? (I can buy books from many sources, but when it comes to DVDs, I use Amazon)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a question for those who plan to avoid Amazon, at least for a while. I think either Borders or Barnes and Noble are associated with Amazon.com, but I can&#8217;t tell which of the two is. I think Borders used to be through Amazon but parted ways a few years ago, but I&#8217;m not sure. The problem is, if you go to either site, it&#8217;s not exactly advertising Amazon ties if they are there (gee, I wonder why&#8230;). So, anyone know for certain whick of the two is the safe one? (I can buy books from many sources, but when it comes to DVDs, I use Amazon)</p>
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		<title>By: Caitlin</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/04/13/quickly-the-amazon-thing/#comment-90580</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Caitlin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2799#comment-90580</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hear that, FJ, and I was reading elsewhere that it&#039;s probable that say 5,000 books with the &quot;adult&quot; tag were meant to be filtered, and whatever happened added the other 52,000 books with that tag to the filter list. So they can&#039;t unfilter the 52,000 automatically without also unfiltering the 5,000 they still don&#039;t want coming up. I can understand that if that&#039;s the case. I just continue to have huge, huge problems with what apparently gets a book an &quot;adult&quot;/filtered tag in the first place (based on the emails LGBT authors were getting in February saying their books had been delinked as &quot;adult&quot;, there is a policy of discrimination, even if Amazon aren&#039;t acknowledging it now). Apparently the gays are inherently unsuitable for minors. WATCH OUT, I MAY EAT A CHILD AT ANY MOMENT.

Also, having done some more research, apparently Borders donate a lot to the Republican Party. GOD WHY? I&#039;m going to fashion my own books from glue and coloured paper, that&#039;s what I&#039;m going to do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear that, FJ, and I was reading elsewhere that it&#8217;s probable that say 5,000 books with the &#8220;adult&#8221; tag were meant to be filtered, and whatever happened added the other 52,000 books with that tag to the filter list. So they can&#8217;t unfilter the 52,000 automatically without also unfiltering the 5,000 they still don&#8217;t want coming up. I can understand that if that&#8217;s the case. I just continue to have huge, huge problems with what apparently gets a book an &#8220;adult&#8221;/filtered tag in the first place (based on the emails LGBT authors were getting in February saying their books had been delinked as &#8220;adult&#8221;, there is a policy of discrimination, even if Amazon aren&#8217;t acknowledging it now). Apparently the gays are inherently unsuitable for minors. WATCH OUT, I MAY EAT A CHILD AT ANY MOMENT.</p>
<p>Also, having done some more research, apparently Borders donate a lot to the Republican Party. GOD WHY? I&#8217;m going to fashion my own books from glue and coloured paper, that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m going to do.</p>
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		<title>By: fillyjonk</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/04/13/quickly-the-amazon-thing/#comment-90560</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fillyjonk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2799#comment-90560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Caitlin, I thought the comment Kate posted from her Amazon employee friend was very interesting as far as how long it takes to turn a ship that big around. I agree that the lack of apology is a problem. The slowness in fixing it might just be built into the system.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caitlin, I thought the comment Kate posted from her Amazon employee friend was very interesting as far as how long it takes to turn a ship that big around. I agree that the lack of apology is a problem. The slowness in fixing it might just be built into the system.</p>
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		<title>By: Caitlin</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/04/13/quickly-the-amazon-thing/#comment-90555</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Caitlin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2799#comment-90555</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Also, from Kate&#039;s Broadsheet piece:

&lt;i&gt;Not to mention LGBT allies and anyone else who feels oogy about buying products from a company that&#039;s OK with letting &quot;You don&#039;t have to be gay!&quot; manuals show up as the top results for a search on &quot;homosexuality&quot; -&lt;/i&gt;

I just went and checked Amazon.co.uk and they still fucking are! On Wednesday morning! Whatever, Amazon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, from Kate&#8217;s Broadsheet piece:</p>
<p><i>Not to mention LGBT allies and anyone else who feels oogy about buying products from a company that&#8217;s OK with letting &#8220;You don&#8217;t have to be gay!&#8221; manuals show up as the top results for a search on &#8220;homosexuality&#8221; -</i></p>
<p>I just went and checked Amazon.co.uk and they still fucking are! On Wednesday morning! Whatever, Amazon.</p>
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		<title>By: Caitlin</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/04/13/quickly-the-amazon-thing/#comment-90554</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Caitlin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2799#comment-90554</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[DRST, I&#039;m with Kate here in that I don&#039;t &lt;i&gt;care&lt;/i&gt; what happened or why, I care that Amazon don&#039;t care enough about LGBTQI and disabled authors or customers (or people!) to have immediately issued an apology that for however many hours we were removed from their search rankings as if we didn&#039;t (shouldn&#039;t) exist. It doesn&#039;t matter if it was by mistake rather than design; either they give a shit that they&#039;ve offended traditionally discriminated-against groups of people or they don&#039;t, and clearly they don&#039;t. And I&#039;ve read in quite a few places now (including The Guardian) about LGBTQI authors having their search rankings removed starting a few months ago due to being classed as &quot;adult&quot; (regardless of explicit content), so I&#039;m currently not buying the &quot;one guy in France&quot; explanation either.

Henceforth I will be moving my online book-buying to Borders. Who, in delightful contrast, had an instore display coming up to Valentine&#039;s Day called &quot;All Kinds of Love&quot; that featured (among Pride and Prejudice, rom-coms, etc) the Sugar Rush boxsets. That made me happier than I can tell you. Borders = win. Amazon = no thank you. If they don&#039;t care whether they have my custom, fine, they don&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DRST, I&#8217;m with Kate here in that I don&#8217;t <i>care</i> what happened or why, I care that Amazon don&#8217;t care enough about LGBTQI and disabled authors or customers (or people!) to have immediately issued an apology that for however many hours we were removed from their search rankings as if we didn&#8217;t (shouldn&#8217;t) exist. It doesn&#8217;t matter if it was by mistake rather than design; either they give a shit that they&#8217;ve offended traditionally discriminated-against groups of people or they don&#8217;t, and clearly they don&#8217;t. And I&#8217;ve read in quite a few places now (including The Guardian) about LGBTQI authors having their search rankings removed starting a few months ago due to being classed as &#8220;adult&#8221; (regardless of explicit content), so I&#8217;m currently not buying the &#8220;one guy in France&#8221; explanation either.</p>
<p>Henceforth I will be moving my online book-buying to Borders. Who, in delightful contrast, had an instore display coming up to Valentine&#8217;s Day called &#8220;All Kinds of Love&#8221; that featured (among Pride and Prejudice, rom-coms, etc) the Sugar Rush boxsets. That made me happier than I can tell you. Borders = win. Amazon = no thank you. If they don&#8217;t care whether they have my custom, fine, they don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Rosa</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/04/13/quickly-the-amazon-thing/#comment-90411</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rosa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2799#comment-90411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The thing is, DRST, individuals were complaining, gently, politely, to Amazon as early as February. 
 
And yet, nothing was investigated or fixed until there was a mob screaming on the internet.
 
Personally, I&#039;m guessing it&#039;s a combination of bad QA and bad customer service (which explains the number of &quot;it is our policy to delist adult books&quot; responses to people inquiring about books that have no explicit sexual content) - I&#039;ve worked in several big companies that experienced &quot;programming errors&quot; and the programming doesn&#039;t get fixed or not fixed based on how difficult it is - it gets fixed if the company thinks it&#039;s important. If not, not. 

It doesn&#039;t have to be an evil conspiracy to have a bad effect - neglecting to fix errors that aren&#039;t perceived as important can have the exact same effect.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is, DRST, individuals were complaining, gently, politely, to Amazon as early as February. </p>
<p>And yet, nothing was investigated or fixed until there was a mob screaming on the internet.</p>
<p>Personally, I&#8217;m guessing it&#8217;s a combination of bad QA and bad customer service (which explains the number of &#8220;it is our policy to delist adult books&#8221; responses to people inquiring about books that have no explicit sexual content) &#8211; I&#8217;ve worked in several big companies that experienced &#8220;programming errors&#8221; and the programming doesn&#8217;t get fixed or not fixed based on how difficult it is &#8211; it gets fixed if the company thinks it&#8217;s important. If not, not. </p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t have to be an evil conspiracy to have a bad effect &#8211; neglecting to fix errors that aren&#8217;t perceived as important can have the exact same effect.</p>
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		<title>By: DRST</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/04/13/quickly-the-amazon-thing/#comment-90410</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DRST]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2799#comment-90410</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kate - My independent film is for sale via Amazon, as is the edited collection I have an essay in. You can be damn sure I went and looked for them both to find out if they were affected by the glitch. I understand what&#039;s at stake, and yes, an apology would be nice, but again, people were freaking out that Amazon hadn&#039;t put out a complete statement first thing Monday morning, before they could even be sure what the hell had happened. Also it wasn&#039;t done on purpose. Of course they should apologize to everyone, sellers and consumers alike, but I&#039;m just put off by the mob mentality that was going on. Everyone is screaming &quot;evil conspiracy&quot; without acknowledging the possibility it was a genuine mistake (which, it seems, it was. Amazon wasn&#039;t fucking with anyone&#039;s livelihoods on purpose).

DRST]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kate &#8211; My independent film is for sale via Amazon, as is the edited collection I have an essay in. You can be damn sure I went and looked for them both to find out if they were affected by the glitch. I understand what&#8217;s at stake, and yes, an apology would be nice, but again, people were freaking out that Amazon hadn&#8217;t put out a complete statement first thing Monday morning, before they could even be sure what the hell had happened. Also it wasn&#8217;t done on purpose. Of course they should apologize to everyone, sellers and consumers alike, but I&#8217;m just put off by the mob mentality that was going on. Everyone is screaming &#8220;evil conspiracy&#8221; without acknowledging the possibility it was a genuine mistake (which, it seems, it was. Amazon wasn&#8217;t fucking with anyone&#8217;s livelihoods on purpose).</p>
<p>DRST</p>
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