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	<title>Comments on: Yes Means Yes! Virtual Tour: Q&amp;A with Kimberly Springer</title>
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	<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/02/12/yes-means-yes-virtual-tour-qa-with-kimberly-springer/</link>
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		<title>By: HollyGAzam</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/02/12/yes-means-yes-virtual-tour-qa-with-kimberly-springer/#comment-85093</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HollyGAzam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2570#comment-85093</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh heck! I don&#039;t watch Eastenders regularly for various reasons, but I&#039;ve seen enough of Heather to back your campaign to the hilt!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh heck! I don&#8217;t watch Eastenders regularly for various reasons, but I&#8217;ve seen enough of Heather to back your campaign to the hilt!</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/02/12/yes-means-yes-virtual-tour-qa-with-kimberly-springer/#comment-85044</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kelly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2570#comment-85044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I really enjoyed this interview, which reminded me of some of the great articles by Dr. Pilgrim that I&#039;ve read at the Jim Crow Museum - go here:  http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/menu.htm, and scroll down to the various caricatures.

It seems that from the moment I read through all of these (about a year ago), when I went on to observe black women in the films I watched, every single one was written as one or a combination of the stereotypes!

I cringe a bit when I see a fat black woman being all sassy in some movie. I don&#039;t cringe because I don&#039;t like fat black sassy women.  I cringe because A.  it seems this archetype is nearly *always* played out that way and with predictable writing, and B. we are relying on her to provide us with something for us.  She is not her own agent; she is the Judge Lady or whatever, merely a caricature, not a person of her own.

I wonder why are we so &quot;comforted&quot; by the idea of the &quot;fat Mammy&quot; dispensing wisdom, or yelling at her man (or anyone)...  or the tragic, sexually lascivious Jezebel / black hooker (like the example mentioned of Halle Berry in Monsters Ball).  To quote Dr. Pilgrim, &quot;The Jezebel images which defame African women may be viewed in two broad categories: pathetic others and exotic others.&quot;  

The main point, being, I guess &quot;Others&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really enjoyed this interview, which reminded me of some of the great articles by Dr. Pilgrim that I&#8217;ve read at the Jim Crow Museum &#8211; go here:  <a href="http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/menu.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/menu.htm</a>, and scroll down to the various caricatures.</p>
<p>It seems that from the moment I read through all of these (about a year ago), when I went on to observe black women in the films I watched, every single one was written as one or a combination of the stereotypes!</p>
<p>I cringe a bit when I see a fat black woman being all sassy in some movie. I don&#8217;t cringe because I don&#8217;t like fat black sassy women.  I cringe because A.  it seems this archetype is nearly *always* played out that way and with predictable writing, and B. we are relying on her to provide us with something for us.  She is not her own agent; she is the Judge Lady or whatever, merely a caricature, not a person of her own.</p>
<p>I wonder why are we so &#8220;comforted&#8221; by the idea of the &#8220;fat Mammy&#8221; dispensing wisdom, or yelling at her man (or anyone)&#8230;  or the tragic, sexually lascivious Jezebel / black hooker (like the example mentioned of Halle Berry in Monsters Ball).  To quote Dr. Pilgrim, &#8220;The Jezebel images which defame African women may be viewed in two broad categories: pathetic others and exotic others.&#8221;  </p>
<p>The main point, being, I guess &#8220;Others&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: wellroundedtype2</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/02/12/yes-means-yes-virtual-tour-qa-with-kimberly-springer/#comment-84913</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wellroundedtype2]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 18:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2570#comment-84913</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would pre-order a book on media representations of African American women&#039;s sexuality -- or maybe a DVD/lecture series would be better.

I saw &quot;She&#039;s Gotta Have It&quot; when it was in theatrical release -- 1986 -- and it made a huge impression on me in terms of female sexuality. I haven&#039;t seen it since -- maybe a glimpse or two on cable TV in the 90s, so that was before the tools I learned in Women&#039;s Studies to examine such things. For those who have watched it again recently with a more critical eye -- what are your thoughts?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would pre-order a book on media representations of African American women&#8217;s sexuality &#8212; or maybe a DVD/lecture series would be better.</p>
<p>I saw &#8220;She&#8217;s Gotta Have It&#8221; when it was in theatrical release &#8212; 1986 &#8212; and it made a huge impression on me in terms of female sexuality. I haven&#8217;t seen it since &#8212; maybe a glimpse or two on cable TV in the 90s, so that was before the tools I learned in Women&#8217;s Studies to examine such things. For those who have watched it again recently with a more critical eye &#8212; what are your thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Nikki</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/02/12/yes-means-yes-virtual-tour-qa-with-kimberly-springer/#comment-84896</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nikki]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 02:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2570#comment-84896</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a much needed discussion.   I&#039;m currently teaching a class on the history of African American women&#039;s history of the 20th century, and we go over these exact stereotypes in our discussion.  I talk about the Jezebel, the Mammy, the Loud Ghetto Black woman, and the Sophisticated Bitch.  The class definitely aims to connect these popular culture images to public policy - how images of black women as lazy and immoral translate into policy for changing the welfare queen; or how images of the sophisticated bitch do inform our views of Condi Rice and Michelle Obama.  

At any rate, my class is having  atouch time wrapping thier minds around the fact that these stereotypes are very common and very subtle.  It&#039;s hard to identify them, let alone scrutinize them.  We go one movie at a time, and it seems to be helping.  We&#039;re looking at films like &quot;Bringin&#039; Down the House&quot; and &quot;Deliver Us from Eva&quot; to help the discussion along.

I loved the discussion.  I&#039;m glad it&#039;s here, and it&#039;s something that my mostly white class should know and hear.  I have a syllabus if anyone wants to check it out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a much needed discussion.   I&#8217;m currently teaching a class on the history of African American women&#8217;s history of the 20th century, and we go over these exact stereotypes in our discussion.  I talk about the Jezebel, the Mammy, the Loud Ghetto Black woman, and the Sophisticated Bitch.  The class definitely aims to connect these popular culture images to public policy &#8211; how images of black women as lazy and immoral translate into policy for changing the welfare queen; or how images of the sophisticated bitch do inform our views of Condi Rice and Michelle Obama.  </p>
<p>At any rate, my class is having  atouch time wrapping thier minds around the fact that these stereotypes are very common and very subtle.  It&#8217;s hard to identify them, let alone scrutinize them.  We go one movie at a time, and it seems to be helping.  We&#8217;re looking at films like &#8220;Bringin&#8217; Down the House&#8221; and &#8220;Deliver Us from Eva&#8221; to help the discussion along.</p>
<p>I loved the discussion.  I&#8217;m glad it&#8217;s here, and it&#8217;s something that my mostly white class should know and hear.  I have a syllabus if anyone wants to check it out.</p>
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		<title>By: wellroundedtype2</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/02/12/yes-means-yes-virtual-tour-qa-with-kimberly-springer/#comment-84885</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wellroundedtype2]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2570#comment-84885</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s the link to the Feminist Studies Major at UC Santa Cruz. I HIGHLY recommend this program to anyone interested in this field:
http://admissions.ucsc.edu/discover/majors/FeministStudies.cfm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the link to the Feminist Studies Major at UC Santa Cruz. I HIGHLY recommend this program to anyone interested in this field:<br />
<a href="http://admissions.ucsc.edu/discover/majors/FeministStudies.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://admissions.ucsc.edu/discover/majors/FeministStudies.cfm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kimberly S.</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/02/12/yes-means-yes-virtual-tour-qa-with-kimberly-springer/#comment-84883</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kimberly S.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2570#comment-84883</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I concur with most of the posts about the brain popping. Is this the so-called &quot;discourse&quot;? Much more fun than the word sounds!

@wellroundedtype2: This is peripheral, but just the fact that your women&#039;s studies alma mater is now &quot;Feminist Studies&quot; instead of Gender Studies or Sexuality Studies is incredible. Particularly in light of attempts to shut down women&#039;s studies department, that they can claim political ideology as their focus of study, is envious. And it kind of leaves no room for &quot;women who happen to study women.&quot; Women, oppression, and resistance studies shouldn&#039;t be incidental.

@A Random Claire: a remake of Taxi?! At first, I thought it was the sitcom, but looked it up and it actually looks even better. Can&#039;t wait to check it out.

@HollyGAzam: Oh my. Part of my problem is that BBC makes it so difficult to respond to their nonsense, which is scandalous for an institution that we must pay a license fee to support. In any case, Heather&#039;s bio: http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/characters_cast/characters/character_heather_t.shtml

Note how she doesn&#039;t have the complete bio of other characters and since the central conceit of Eastenders is family, she&#039;s listed along with &quot;Other Family&quot; along with as-yet-to-be-discovered children, orphans, the eternal bachelors, the as-yet-assimilated ex-con black preacher man, and...a dog. 

This week&#039;s storyline which included her clambering on top of her friend&#039;s head to get over George Michael&#039;s garden wall, wearing fuzzy fairy antennae in a tiny pink backpack, and her best mate hiring a date for her for Valentine&#039;s Day have tipped me over the edge. It&#039;s war ladies! The campaign to get this actress some decent material is on like DONKEY KONG!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I concur with most of the posts about the brain popping. Is this the so-called &#8220;discourse&#8221;? Much more fun than the word sounds!</p>
<p>@wellroundedtype2: This is peripheral, but just the fact that your women&#8217;s studies alma mater is now &#8220;Feminist Studies&#8221; instead of Gender Studies or Sexuality Studies is incredible. Particularly in light of attempts to shut down women&#8217;s studies department, that they can claim political ideology as their focus of study, is envious. And it kind of leaves no room for &#8220;women who happen to study women.&#8221; Women, oppression, and resistance studies shouldn&#8217;t be incidental.</p>
<p>@A Random Claire: a remake of Taxi?! At first, I thought it was the sitcom, but looked it up and it actually looks even better. Can&#8217;t wait to check it out.</p>
<p>@HollyGAzam: Oh my. Part of my problem is that BBC makes it so difficult to respond to their nonsense, which is scandalous for an institution that we must pay a license fee to support. In any case, Heather&#8217;s bio: <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/characters_cast/characters/character_heather_t.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/characters_cast/characters/character_heather_t.shtml</a></p>
<p>Note how she doesn&#8217;t have the complete bio of other characters and since the central conceit of Eastenders is family, she&#8217;s listed along with &#8220;Other Family&#8221; along with as-yet-to-be-discovered children, orphans, the eternal bachelors, the as-yet-assimilated ex-con black preacher man, and&#8230;a dog. </p>
<p>This week&#8217;s storyline which included her clambering on top of her friend&#8217;s head to get over George Michael&#8217;s garden wall, wearing fuzzy fairy antennae in a tiny pink backpack, and her best mate hiring a date for her for Valentine&#8217;s Day have tipped me over the edge. It&#8217;s war ladies! The campaign to get this actress some decent material is on like DONKEY KONG!</p>
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		<title>By: wellroundedtype2</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/02/12/yes-means-yes-virtual-tour-qa-with-kimberly-springer/#comment-84868</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wellroundedtype2]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2570#comment-84868</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am working my way through &quot;Yes Means Yes!&quot; somewhat slowly, and this interview prompted me to read Dr. Springer&#039;s essay very closely last night. I also re-read Kate&#039;s.
Wow.
The book overall is opening my eyes and brain more than they have been in a long time. I was a women&#039;s studies (now Feminist Studies) major at UC Santa Cruz in the late 1980 (before some of the readers here were born, I&#039;m sure) and it&#039;s prompting me to think about stuff I haven&#039;t thought about in a long time. It is prompting me to think even more intersectionally.
There were a few things in Dr. Springer&#039;s essay that made my brain particularly pop:
* Applying Foucault&#039;s ideas of surveillance to how we control ourselves in order to avoid punishment. I had explored this in my senior thesis with regard to weight and body image, and it&#039;s fascinating to think about in terms of how &quot;out&quot; we are allowed to be about sexuality. Being a white woman, I don&#039;t operate in the same social confines as women of color do, and black women in particular do. But it was very helpful to see how white women&#039;s sexuality is also policed by how black women&#039;s sexuality is constructed and enforced.
* I think that in Kate&#039;s essay, the hypersexual/asexual construct of fat women&#039;s sexuality was in parallel to how black women&#039;s sexuality is dichotomized in U.S. society. And of course, for fat women of color, the effects would be compounded. What very little room to move there is in one&#039;s own brain -- &quot;If I wear that, I&#039;ll be a fat ho?&quot; -- &quot;I need to feel sexy, but I don&#039;t want anyone to think I&#039;m fast.&quot; White privilege appears to work in my favor to have ONLY the confines of being a fat woman, not the extra added layers of having to navigate what my community thinks of me, being subject to more violence because women of color&#039;s bodies are treated by some (many? most?) men as public property,  and trying to figure out how to be sexual where every turn is met with judgement. Add class analysis into this, and I can see I&#039;ve been very privileged.
* The idea of &quot;queering&quot; is something that has actually come up in therapy. My therapist has been using the language of the gay rights movement to encourage me to &quot;fly my flag&quot; about being fat. To be &quot;out&quot; as a fat person. To stop the inner policing and surveillance and allow myself to freely experience and share myself in the world as I am, in my entirety. Intentionally being queer -- different, strange, unusual, in tune with my own needs and wants. I hadn&#039;t thought of it quite in this way until reading Dr. Springer&#039;s essay, but it&#039;s coming together now. Intentionally queering is a subversive act of empowerment.
* Although I don&#039;t think I&#039;m someone who has been part of the bandwagon of &quot;but black men think fat women are sexy&quot; -- in the context of Dr. Springer&#039;s essay, I can see how that presumption would cause hurt, anger and a feeling of being completely misunderstood. 
And if there&#039;s something I&#039;ve said here that is too presumptive, assumptive or is offensive, please let me know.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am working my way through &#8220;Yes Means Yes!&#8221; somewhat slowly, and this interview prompted me to read Dr. Springer&#8217;s essay very closely last night. I also re-read Kate&#8217;s.<br />
Wow.<br />
The book overall is opening my eyes and brain more than they have been in a long time. I was a women&#8217;s studies (now Feminist Studies) major at UC Santa Cruz in the late 1980 (before some of the readers here were born, I&#8217;m sure) and it&#8217;s prompting me to think about stuff I haven&#8217;t thought about in a long time. It is prompting me to think even more intersectionally.<br />
There were a few things in Dr. Springer&#8217;s essay that made my brain particularly pop:<br />
* Applying Foucault&#8217;s ideas of surveillance to how we control ourselves in order to avoid punishment. I had explored this in my senior thesis with regard to weight and body image, and it&#8217;s fascinating to think about in terms of how &#8220;out&#8221; we are allowed to be about sexuality. Being a white woman, I don&#8217;t operate in the same social confines as women of color do, and black women in particular do. But it was very helpful to see how white women&#8217;s sexuality is also policed by how black women&#8217;s sexuality is constructed and enforced.<br />
* I think that in Kate&#8217;s essay, the hypersexual/asexual construct of fat women&#8217;s sexuality was in parallel to how black women&#8217;s sexuality is dichotomized in U.S. society. And of course, for fat women of color, the effects would be compounded. What very little room to move there is in one&#8217;s own brain &#8212; &#8220;If I wear that, I&#8217;ll be a fat ho?&#8221; &#8212; &#8220;I need to feel sexy, but I don&#8217;t want anyone to think I&#8217;m fast.&#8221; White privilege appears to work in my favor to have ONLY the confines of being a fat woman, not the extra added layers of having to navigate what my community thinks of me, being subject to more violence because women of color&#8217;s bodies are treated by some (many? most?) men as public property,  and trying to figure out how to be sexual where every turn is met with judgement. Add class analysis into this, and I can see I&#8217;ve been very privileged.<br />
* The idea of &#8220;queering&#8221; is something that has actually come up in therapy. My therapist has been using the language of the gay rights movement to encourage me to &#8220;fly my flag&#8221; about being fat. To be &#8220;out&#8221; as a fat person. To stop the inner policing and surveillance and allow myself to freely experience and share myself in the world as I am, in my entirety. Intentionally being queer &#8212; different, strange, unusual, in tune with my own needs and wants. I hadn&#8217;t thought of it quite in this way until reading Dr. Springer&#8217;s essay, but it&#8217;s coming together now. Intentionally queering is a subversive act of empowerment.<br />
* Although I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m someone who has been part of the bandwagon of &#8220;but black men think fat women are sexy&#8221; &#8212; in the context of Dr. Springer&#8217;s essay, I can see how that presumption would cause hurt, anger and a feeling of being completely misunderstood.<br />
And if there&#8217;s something I&#8217;ve said here that is too presumptive, assumptive or is offensive, please let me know.</p>
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		<title>By: blue milk</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/02/12/yes-means-yes-virtual-tour-qa-with-kimberly-springer/#comment-84859</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blue milk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2570#comment-84859</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is an absolutely fascinating interview. Well done Shapely Prose.

Really thought-provoking responses from Dr Springer, I had to stop several times along the way to think all my thoughts through to completion, and seriously well managed interview on the part of Ms Harding. 

Fantastic!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an absolutely fascinating interview. Well done Shapely Prose.</p>
<p>Really thought-provoking responses from Dr Springer, I had to stop several times along the way to think all my thoughts through to completion, and seriously well managed interview on the part of Ms Harding. </p>
<p>Fantastic!</p>
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		<title>By: HollyGAzam</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/02/12/yes-means-yes-virtual-tour-qa-with-kimberly-springer/#comment-84681</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HollyGAzam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2570#comment-84681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ps I meant to say how much I enjoyed the Q&amp;A, and I for one really really really want to read more about Dr Springer&#039;s take on Heather from Eastenders!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ps I meant to say how much I enjoyed the Q&amp;A, and I for one really really really want to read more about Dr Springer&#8217;s take on Heather from Eastenders!</p>
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		<title>By: HollyGAzam</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2009/02/12/yes-means-yes-virtual-tour-qa-with-kimberly-springer/#comment-84680</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HollyGAzam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/?p=2570#comment-84680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know nothing about publishing houses, but I am shocked that black female sexuality was considered too narrow an area! How many black women are there in the world today? Billions? And do they not all have a sexuality? sheesh.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know nothing about publishing houses, but I am shocked that black female sexuality was considered too narrow an area! How many black women are there in the world today? Billions? And do they not all have a sexuality? sheesh.</p>
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