Comments on: Welcome, Salon readers!

By: Sweet Machine

Sweet Machine — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:31:20 +0000

Susan, welcome and I'm glad Kate's writing spoke to you. I just want to let you know that with regard to the comment So why can’t we just be as accepting of a body that has a different shape or size as we are of one that has skin of a different color? , many many people are not accepting of people with different skin colors -- racism is still alive and kicking and we shouldn't paper over that fact. (See Rule 12 of the comments policy.

By: Susan S. Fliegel

Susan S. Fliegel — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:12:15 +0000

Thank you for your comments about flying while fat. I am now a fat woman. I didn’t use to be, but health problems have caused me to get larger than I ever thought I could. But even when I was thin, I had what you might call a “womanly” shape — large boobs, large hips and butt, small waist. At a “normal” weight, my wide hips made it uncomfortable for me to ride in a coach airline seat. I used to hate traveling on business because the seats were so cramped and narrow, except when the company booked the old Midwest Express airlines, which had wider seats.

Now that I am larger, I dread the day we have to plan a flight due to a family emergency — one will happen sooner or later, as we have family all over the country and some of them are getting elderly.

Why should larger people (who comprise good numbers of the population) be penalized for their bodies? If diet and exercise were all it takes to be thin, most of us would be. But sometimes diet and exercise are not enough to change a fat body into a thin one. I am a type 2 diabetic with polycystic ovarian sydrome and don’t eat sugar, refined flour, white rice, or trans fats, and restrict all fats and white potatoes. I follow a fairly strict eating program and my typical snack is a lowfat yogurt or carrot sticks with a teaspoon of dressing. I walk every day, but do not have time for an additional 30 or more minutes of exercise because I hold down a full-time job, do some freelance work, keep a house and yard presentable, do most of the shopping and laundry for the family, and take care of my 86-year-old mother, who has dementia. I keep myself neat, clean, and well groomed. And yet I constantly get “advice” from people who sigh that I have let myself go and should really do more to take care of my health. Give me a break!

Dogs come in all sizes and shapes — so do people. So why can’t we just be as accepting of a body that has a different shape or size as we are of one that has skin of a different color? Or that houses someone who follows a different faith?

I’ll get off my soapbox now. But at least it’s wide enough to sit on comfortably!

By: aleks

aleks — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 06:25:05 +0000

January 26 of which year?

By: Paula

Paula — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 00:50:32 +0000

Yes, it’s society, but we also do it to ourselves. Perhaps if society were different, we wouldn’t, but we often beat ourselves up for things that no one else in our life does. And in my case, even if FA were the law of the land, and I were the equivalent of a runway model or a Hollywood actress, I’d still be experiencing the horrible physical reactions and not knowing why, and down on myself for being out of control, depressed, binging, out of shape, etc.

In other words, what we blame on the fat, or society’s reaction to it, may be a physiological response to what’s happening in our bodies when our eating places its chemistry out of whack, or may be a human tendency to never believe we’re good enough, no matter what state we’re in. I’m looking forward to sorting some of this out on my journey.

By: fillyjonk

fillyjonk — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:12:01 +0000

Paula, it’s interesting that you say that low self-esteeem is “the real damage that fat inflicts,” even while recognizing that it’s society, not fat, that inflicts that damage.

By: Paula

Paula — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:28:09 +0000

I’m fat. I’m also sugar-addicted and wheat-sensitive (not to the point of having celiac disease, but allergic nonetheless.) I don’t believe (and a lot of competent scientific evidence backs me up) that exercise or calorie deficits will cause me to lose weight, nor that my metabolism has caused me to gain it. My blood sugar, blood pressure and triglycerides are perfectly normal, and my cholesterol numbers are consistent with many who eat very few carbohydrates (which is slightly higher than normal, but within parameters that suggest the lack of any health problems.)

Thus I’m no longer trying to “diet,” which is choosing my food for the purpose of losing weight. I am trying to view sugar and refined carbs the way vegetarians view meat, that is, they don’t consider themselves to be a diet, but they are defining themselves by the foods which they do not eat.

Weight is falling off of me like crazy, and now that I’ve determine the cause of my obesity, I have no idea where I will end up if I succeed in fully transforming my way of eating and accepting that like an alcoholic who can’t drink at all, I can’t have sugar — ever — if I don’t want to trigger the binges that led me to this place.

But I will always be a fat person, in that I will always understand the problems that fat people face in our society. I don’t know how long it will take to undo the self-esteem issues that are harder to shed than pounds, but that’s the real damage that fat inflicts.

By: Jenny

Jenny — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:26:27 +0000

Liza, I see what you’re saying…maybe a better way to deal with the question of “what is fat” would be to ask, what makes SOMEONE ELSE “fat” in our eyes, since whether we’re fat in our own eyes is so subjective? I mean, given that we are NOT using “fat” as an insult or anything, just a statement of fact that a person possesses certain qualities. What are the qualities? Well, we know what the qualities are, but in what quantity must a person have them in order to be fat, and how are we making that assessment? There are plenty of people who have, for example, somewhat rounded stomachs, who are definitely not what I’d call fat.

The BMI project slideshow is a perfect example of this. I agree with Kate that a lot of the “overweight” and “obese” people pictured are NOT what I’d call fat. But yes, some people ARE fat. On what am I basing that judgment? That’s what I’m trying to figure out.

This relates to something someone said above–the commenter suggested that we say we “HAVE fat,” not that we “ARE fat.” Because to say we ARE fat is to suggest that it’s binary. You’re either fat, or you’re not. Which is problematic because fat exists along a continuum, and yet there still seems to be a mysterious “line” on one side of which you’re fat, and on the other side you’re not.

By: Panic

Panic — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:44:29 +0000

Hi Kate,
I posted your Salon article on my Livejournal, and there’s been a lot of discussion around it. Thank you for the jumping off point.

By: Liza

Liza — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:30:03 +0000

I know you directed that at Kate, Jenny, but I’m going to butt in and say that “fat” is subjective, especially when addressed at oneself.

To me, I’ll always be fat no matter what size I am. I’ll always have a belly, thighs that touch (er, rub) at the top, arm flab, etc. I mean, I’m the smallest I’ve been in a long time (since high school) but I’m still fat and get annoyed when people call me otherwise.

I’m less fat than I was a year ago but I’m still fat.

By: Jenny

Jenny — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:14:00 +0000

Hi Kate,
I really enjoyed your article and am deeply heartened to see these issues dealt with. It’s so amazing how many ways people have of sidestepping the issues you’re talking about. I’ve tried so many times to talk to people about this, and have so often gotten silencing responses. You get the size-4-but-not-model-thin people who take it in the direction of bellyaching about how “fat” they are and about how the media is making everyone anorexic (um, except me, I guess, since I’m pretty damn far from anorexic). You get the politically correct shamemongers who shake their fingers at me for giving a second thought to the phenomenon of fat-hatred, spewing cliches along the lines of “stop caring what people think” and “all bodies are beautiful” (as if I’ve said they aren’t) and “Fat is a meaningless term, end of discussion, la la la la la.”

One question persists after reading your article: You’re pretty vehement that you are, indeed, fat. By what criteria are you making that assessment? I’m not disagreeing with the assertion that you’re fat — I’m just asking, what in your opinion puts a person in the “fat box,” as you’ve so aptly put it? What, exactly, IS “fat?” You’ve done a wonderful job of saying what it ISN’T (ugly, rejected, unhealthy, “excess” or “over” weight, having more than 0% body fat, having this or that BMI, etc). Yet, you also seem willing to use “fat” as a meaningful adjective that can be applied to some people and not others, and you haven’t asserted that true body acceptance requires a person to totally dispense with the word “fat.” So how are you applying it?