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	<title>Comments on: So that weight loss book thing&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: Bunny Mazonas</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/10/07/so-that-weight-loss-book-thing/#comment-72980</link>
		<dc:creator>Bunny Mazonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1991#comment-72980</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’m curious to see what explanation explains why the kids that didn’t read anything gained more weight&quot;

Sorry, can&#039;t figure out the italics!  I might have read it wrong, but the studies didn&#039;t say the non-reading group gained weight, but BMI.  BMI does not measure height and weight proportionally, which might be a factor.  

Additionally, my figures were taken from charts showing children&#039;s average weight/heights.  The 144cm, 36kg child I mentioned has a BMI of 17.4, and was slap bang in the middle of the 11-year-old line of the chart.  I don&#039;t think BMI works AT ALL for children.

I think sample size is the main hang-up for me, as well.  I mean, considering the small size, it only takes one group to have one child that develops &quot;unusually&quot; to throw out the results by possibly more than the whopping 0.71% BMI change measured.  I recall growing from a no-cup to almost a C cup during my first year of puberty, so if I&#039;d been one of the kids in that study I would have almost certainly thrown the whole thing off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’m curious to see what explanation explains why the kids that didn’t read anything gained more weight&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry, can&#8217;t figure out the italics!  I might have read it wrong, but the studies didn&#8217;t say the non-reading group gained weight, but BMI.  BMI does not measure height and weight proportionally, which might be a factor.  </p>
<p>Additionally, my figures were taken from charts showing children&#8217;s average weight/heights.  The 144cm, 36kg child I mentioned has a BMI of 17.4, and was slap bang in the middle of the 11-year-old line of the chart.  I don&#8217;t think BMI works AT ALL for children.</p>
<p>I think sample size is the main hang-up for me, as well.  I mean, considering the small size, it only takes one group to have one child that develops &#8220;unusually&#8221; to throw out the results by possibly more than the whopping 0.71% BMI change measured.  I recall growing from a no-cup to almost a C cup during my first year of puberty, so if I&#8217;d been one of the kids in that study I would have almost certainly thrown the whole thing off.</p>
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		<title>By: Em</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/10/07/so-that-weight-loss-book-thing/#comment-72979</link>
		<dc:creator>Em</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1991#comment-72979</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If the results are statistically significant, that means it’s already incorporated the fact that 9-13 year old girls naturally get taller and heavier. &lt;/i&gt;

Um, does it?  As far as I know, it just says that p &lt;0.05 considering the variance of weights and the sample size. 
It doesn&#039;t say anything about how (or if) the groups were randomized, or if the results were corrected for certain factors.

Yeah, but that&#039;s besides the point. Even if it was the most methodically sound study in the history of research... what&#039;s the point? I&#039;ve read so many studies lately about new ways to make people lose 2 pounds over the course of 6 months. Is there seriously money being spent on this &#039;research&#039;? I lose and gain two pounds once a month! I could probably lose &lt;i&gt;four&lt;/i&gt; pounds by a cheap, easy to administer food poisoning! Let&#039;s go publish!

But what&#039;s to be gained, what&#039;s the &lt;i&gt;benefit??&lt;/i&gt; I&#039;m working in obesity related research right now and the way obesity research works hurts my head!!

Usually medical studies go &quot;ok this is the problem, this is the med we gave them, people on that med lived 3 days longer and were 2% happier on the so-and-so-happiness-evaluation scale, compare to people on placebo.&quot;
Obesity studies just go &quot;Ok we know obesity is BAD right? Just think of the children! And on Diet A people lost 1.14 pounds more than on Diet B. Yay!&quot;

So, were the girls who read the book... healthier? Will they live longer? Were they happier? Better in school? How did it influence their self-esteem and self-image? Their quality of life?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If the results are statistically significant, that means it’s already incorporated the fact that 9-13 year old girls naturally get taller and heavier. </i></p>
<p>Um, does it?  As far as I know, it just says that p &lt;0.05 considering the variance of weights and the sample size.<br />
It doesn&#8217;t say anything about how (or if) the groups were randomized, or if the results were corrected for certain factors.</p>
<p>Yeah, but that&#8217;s besides the point. Even if it was the most methodically sound study in the history of research&#8230; what&#8217;s the point? I&#8217;ve read so many studies lately about new ways to make people lose 2 pounds over the course of 6 months. Is there seriously money being spent on this &#8216;research&#8217;? I lose and gain two pounds once a month! I could probably lose <i>four</i> pounds by a cheap, easy to administer food poisoning! Let&#8217;s go publish!</p>
<p>But what&#8217;s to be gained, what&#8217;s the <i>benefit??</i> I&#8217;m working in obesity related research right now and the way obesity research works hurts my head!!</p>
<p>Usually medical studies go &#8220;ok this is the problem, this is the med we gave them, people on that med lived 3 days longer and were 2% happier on the so-and-so-happiness-evaluation scale, compare to people on placebo.&#8221;<br />
Obesity studies just go &#8220;Ok we know obesity is BAD right? Just think of the children! And on Diet A people lost 1.14 pounds more than on Diet B. Yay!&#8221;</p>
<p>So, were the girls who read the book&#8230; healthier? Will they live longer? Were they happier? Better in school? How did it influence their self-esteem and self-image? Their quality of life?</p>
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		<title>By: cereselle</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/10/07/so-that-weight-loss-book-thing/#comment-72967</link>
		<dc:creator>cereselle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1991#comment-72967</guid>
		<description>When I was a preteen, my mom gave me &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Jelly-Belly-Robert-Kimmel-Smith/dp/0440442079/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1223485172&amp;sr=1-1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jelly Belly&lt;/a&gt;.  One scene has stuck in my head for life.  Ned is talking to a doctor about weight loss.  The doctor tells him that the less he eats, the more weight he&#039;ll lose.

&quot;What if I don&#039;t eat anything at all?&quot; asks Ned.

&quot;Then you will lose weight very quickly,&quot; says the doctor.

W. T. F.

Its only saving grace is that it doesn&#039;t have a female protagonist.  Because then I would have to stab things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was a preteen, my mom gave me <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Jelly-Belly-Robert-Kimmel-Smith/dp/0440442079/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1223485172&amp;sr=1-1" rel="nofollow">Jelly Belly</a>.  One scene has stuck in my head for life.  Ned is talking to a doctor about weight loss.  The doctor tells him that the less he eats, the more weight he&#8217;ll lose.</p>
<p>&#8220;What if I don&#8217;t eat anything at all?&#8221; asks Ned.</p>
<p>&#8220;Then you will lose weight very quickly,&#8221; says the doctor.</p>
<p>W. T. F.</p>
<p>Its only saving grace is that it doesn&#8217;t have a female protagonist.  Because then I would have to stab things.</p>
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		<title>By: kristin</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/10/07/so-that-weight-loss-book-thing/#comment-72966</link>
		<dc:creator>kristin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1991#comment-72966</guid>
		<description>um, did anyone else go to look at the &quot;Healthy Lifestyles&quot; program at Duke?  (That&#039;s where the sample of 64 girls came from).

Because, this really freaks me out:  it&#039;s &quot;...a multidisciplinary referral clinic for the management of childhood obesity in children and teenagers ages 0-22&quot;.

0.  Zero.  As in a fucking infant?  The site says that if you are less than 2 and above the 95th percentile, you qualify to participate.  yippee.  

I don&#039;t know how to do that embedding thingy, but here is the website.

http://pediatrics.duke.edu/modules/ctr_ped_cendo_svc/index.php?id=1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>um, did anyone else go to look at the &#8220;Healthy Lifestyles&#8221; program at Duke?  (That&#8217;s where the sample of 64 girls came from).</p>
<p>Because, this really freaks me out:  it&#8217;s &#8220;&#8230;a multidisciplinary referral clinic for the management of childhood obesity in children and teenagers ages 0-22&#8243;.</p>
<p>0.  Zero.  As in a fucking infant?  The site says that if you are less than 2 and above the 95th percentile, you qualify to participate.  yippee.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how to do that embedding thingy, but here is the website.</p>
<p><a href="http://pediatrics.duke.edu/modules/ctr_ped_cendo_svc/index.php?id=1" rel="nofollow">http://pediatrics.duke.edu/modules/ctr_ped_cendo_svc/index.php?id=1</a></p>
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		<title>By: himawari</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/10/07/so-that-weight-loss-book-thing/#comment-72964</link>
		<dc:creator>himawari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1991#comment-72964</guid>
		<description>.....I should diet until I was done with my growth spurt....

should read

.....I should not diet until I was done with my growth spurt.  That&#039;ll teach me to not proofread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;..I should diet until I was done with my growth spurt&#8230;.</p>
<p>should read</p>
<p>&#8230;..I should not diet until I was done with my growth spurt.  That&#8217;ll teach me to not proofread.</p>
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		<title>By: himawari</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/10/07/so-that-weight-loss-book-thing/#comment-72963</link>
		<dc:creator>himawari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1991#comment-72963</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Although the numbers aren’t huge, a lot of overweight girls in that age group tend to gain more and more weight as they age,&quot; Russell says. &lt;/i&gt;

Really?!?!?!?!?  GROWING GIRLS GAIN WEIGHT?!?!?!?!  OMG what a revelation!  Even underweight girls gain weight when they&#039;re, you know, STARTING PUBERTY.  *TRIPLE HEADDESK*

And seriously, 9-13 year old girls should NOT be dieting.  I remember being told at that age that I should diet until I was done with my growth spurt, because I could stunt my growth.  It seems like most girls that age are either super-skinny or at least a little chubby; could it because because *gasp* their bodies are changing?  And dude, my BMI changes 0.71% over the course of a month because I retain water more at certain times during my cycle.  To consider this a change for girls going through puberty over 6 months is ABSURD.

How about we just encourage kids to read because it&#039;s good for their minds, and encourage them to a diverse diet and move their bodies because it&#039;s good for their bodies, NOT because either activity will help them lose weight.  This obsession is sad, sad, sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Although the numbers aren’t huge, a lot of overweight girls in that age group tend to gain more and more weight as they age,&#8221; Russell says. </i></p>
<p>Really?!?!?!?!?  GROWING GIRLS GAIN WEIGHT?!?!?!?!  OMG what a revelation!  Even underweight girls gain weight when they&#8217;re, you know, STARTING PUBERTY.  *TRIPLE HEADDESK*</p>
<p>And seriously, 9-13 year old girls should NOT be dieting.  I remember being told at that age that I should diet until I was done with my growth spurt, because I could stunt my growth.  It seems like most girls that age are either super-skinny or at least a little chubby; could it because because *gasp* their bodies are changing?  And dude, my BMI changes 0.71% over the course of a month because I retain water more at certain times during my cycle.  To consider this a change for girls going through puberty over 6 months is ABSURD.</p>
<p>How about we just encourage kids to read because it&#8217;s good for their minds, and encourage them to a diverse diet and move their bodies because it&#8217;s good for their bodies, NOT because either activity will help them lose weight.  This obsession is sad, sad, sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Tricia</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/10/07/so-that-weight-loss-book-thing/#comment-72962</link>
		<dc:creator>Tricia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1991#comment-72962</guid>
		<description>I would have curled up into fetal position and died if I hadn&#039;t been allowed to read at that age. 

(At any age really, but especially then.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would have curled up into fetal position and died if I hadn&#8217;t been allowed to read at that age. </p>
<p>(At any age really, but especially then.)</p>
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		<title>By: Sweet Machine</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/10/07/so-that-weight-loss-book-thing/#comment-72961</link>
		<dc:creator>Sweet Machine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1991#comment-72961</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;They have a group that isn’t reading any books, &lt;/i&gt;

I know we&#039;re all just speculating here, but good god, I hope they DON&#039;T have a group of 9-13 year-olds reading no books for six months, control group or no!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>They have a group that isn’t reading any books, </i></p>
<p>I know we&#8217;re all just speculating here, but good god, I hope they DON&#8217;T have a group of 9-13 year-olds reading no books for six months, control group or no!</p>
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		<title>By: killedbyllamas</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/10/07/so-that-weight-loss-book-thing/#comment-72959</link>
		<dc:creator>killedbyllamas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1991#comment-72959</guid>
		<description>I agree, the problem totally is sample size. Puberty is such an unpredictable creature that you really would need way more participants to even begin to account for, say, the sudden appearance of several racks o&#039; doom in one group and fewer in the others. Seriously, the results could be accounted for by coincidental distribution of boobage. (Or growth, or whatever.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, the problem totally is sample size. Puberty is such an unpredictable creature that you really would need way more participants to even begin to account for, say, the sudden appearance of several racks o&#8217; doom in one group and fewer in the others. Seriously, the results could be accounted for by coincidental distribution of boobage. (Or growth, or whatever.)</p>
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		<title>By: kateharding</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/10/07/so-that-weight-loss-book-thing/#comment-72953</link>
		<dc:creator>kateharding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 04:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1991#comment-72953</guid>
		<description>OK, gotcha, Dana and Epiphenomena. And yeah, I guess my problem really does come down to the sample size, then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, gotcha, Dana and Epiphenomena. And yeah, I guess my problem really does come down to the sample size, then.</p>
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