 |
CNN has an article about people staying behind in New Orleans despite evacuation orders. Some key quotes:
“The thing is… most people don’t have cars to leave, don’t have money for gas. Pay for a hotel for that long? I mean, you have to do whatever you have to do, and I guess I’m gonna stay and work.” [--Michael Kennedy, dishwasher]
“If I left, I’ll probably lose my job,” said Jeremiah O’Farrell, another dishwasher who is staying put. “I really don’t have anywhere to go if I could leave.”
[Ninth Ward resident Sidney] William wants desperately to leave his native New Orleans to avoid Gustav. He didn’t leave for Katrina because he didn’t have the money. He won’t talk about what happened to him during that storm.
“I wish I had the money to go.” Rejected for disability subsidies, he depends on his 23-year-old daughter, Gloria, to support the family.
From an AP article on the mandatory evacuation:
About two dozen Hispanic men gathered under oak trees near Claiborne Avenue. They were wary of boarding any bus, even though a city spokesman said no identity papers would be required.
“The problem is,” said Pictor Soto, 44, of Peru, “there will be immigration people there and we’re all undocumented.”
And:
Unlike Katrina, when thousands took refuge inside the Superdome, there will be no “last resort” shelter, and those who stay behind accept “all responsibility for themselves and their loved ones,” said the city’s emergency preparedness director, Jerry Sneed.
Emphasis added.
Brownfemipower has a post up about how you can help low-income women of color and their families and prisoners who need to be evacuated. If you have any other information on how to help, please leave it in comments.
Shapelings in the area, you and your families are in our thoughts.
I have that panicky, “need to do something! need to do something!” feeling going on right now. I hate that all I can do is throw money at the problem. It won’t make me feel better but if it’s all I can do, I will.
I don’t understand how someone could be fired from their job for leaving during a FORCED evacuation? I’m not dumb enough to think it won’t happen but gosh, that’s just irresponsible.
HAVE THESE FUCKWITS LEARNED NOTHING?
Death is cheap. Life is fucking expensive. HOW MANY died during and after Katrina?
Great. Now I’m crying again.
I wish I had money to throw at the problem, but even that I can’t do.
I don’t know how much I can truly blame this administration or FEMA or the local officials or climate change for the complete mess there or for the total lack of power over this situation that most of us have, but they are all infuriating factors. I want to just be angry and political about it but it’s impossible. I’m sad and appalled and that’s all I can do.
Who’s going to fire him? The restaurant owner who has also evacuated?
As for illegals, I seriously doubt anyone will be checking papers. Their lives are at stake. End of story.
The local government has seemingly learned from its past mistakes and is providing plenty of buses and trains out of the area.
Prisoners were evacuated a couple of days ago.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/08/louisiana-moves.html
Janey, calling undocumented immigrants “illegals” is pretty dehumanizing. No human being is illegal; they are just in the country illegally or working illegally.
And unfortunately, whether lives are at stake is not the benchmark by which our country calibrates its immigration policy. The people concerned about reprisals due to their immigration status came to that conclusion through hard experience. I have read about and worked with people who have undergone such experiences. It’s inappropriate to assume that you have a better understanding of what their experience is and what their fears in this situation should be.
There’s a disconnect between that CNN article and other articles I’ve read about the evacuation. According to other sources, including the local New Orleans paper, the city has set up 17 evacuation stations and is providing free transportation by bus and train to hurricane shelters inland. If that’s the case, money shouldn’t prevent anyone from being able to evacuate. They’re even allowing people to bring their pets, who are being transported to the shelter on air-conditioned animal-transport trucks.
Nothing about the organized evacuation efforts is mentioned in the CNN piece, though. That seems strange. Are people being denied access to the evacuation, or do they somehow not know about it, or have they chosen not to go and are rationalizing their reasons? I wish I had more information.
You’re right, OTM…”illegal” was thoughtless. I should have said “illegal immigrants.” No disrespect was meant. You, however, must also respect such people enough to admit that when they enter the country illegally, they know exactly what they’re doing and that it is illegal and there may be consequences in the future. You have to respect them enough to let them take responsibility for their actions. If you don’t, you infantilize people.
Janey, that doesn’t make any sense. I never said anything about responsibility, nor did I make any assumptions of what an immigrant does or does not know when he or she enters the country (or as is the case with many workers in New Orleans, moves from one part of the country to NO to take advantage of the need for cheap labor). I said that when you insist that undocumented immigrants have nothing to fear from boarding a bus provided by a government with a horrible record of human rights abuses against undocumented immigrants, you are erasing their lived experiences. I said you have no right to tell these people because lives are at stake, they have nothing to fear, “end of story.” It’s not the end of the story, and it’s not your place to decide that it is.
I am basically calling you out for acting like your opinion on what is an isn’t safe for people in New Orleans is somehow more credible than the opinions of the people actually living in that situation. It’s like when a man berates a woman for not wanting to walk somewhere alone at night because he’s never felt uneasy about it. You are making an assumption based on your lived experiences, which are not universal. And as a result, you are encouraging people to turns their backs on these people who are left behind in New Orleans because hey, they deserved it! That’s bullshit.
That second comment is applicable to your whole post, wherein you have the gall to decide that a dishwasher is silly for fearing that he’ll lose his job if he evacuates.
Also, just FYI, I’m not going to argue with you about it any more. I’ve got plans today and will be away from the computer.
OTM, thanks for laying all that out, because I was away from the computer until just now.
Janey: What OTM said. I would also add that it sounds like you’re saying undocumented immigrants must accept death by hurricane as a possible consequence of coming here, which… Jesus.
Also, on my cross-post of this at Shakes, kidlacan left a very good explanation of the challenges people trying to evacuate are facing.
My thoughts go out to all those people involved directly or indirectly. I hope it doesn’t go like it did with Katrina, but it seems bleak from what I read in the news over here :-(
This is so upsetting. I have also heard that the evacuation transportation provided is free, though, so I hope the people who want to leave and think they can’t afford it will soon actually be accomodated and helped. I really really hope so. I’m so worried for them now.
Also holy shit, it should be so impossible for someone to get fired for not obeying a mandatory evacuation, and that makes me so goddamn angry.
Everyone please think strong, strong thoughts for those levees… If the ones that actually held last time give way this time, it could be MUCH much worse. Katrina was NOT the worst case scenario for New Orleans flood disasters. I really don’t want that to happen.
I mentioned this to my mother earlier. She approved of the city not making last-resort shelters available, since “everyone has a chance to get out, this time.”
I pointed out that some people can’t physically get out, or don’t have the money.
She shrugged, and said “Well, that’s where Corporate America has to step in. The corporations have to do what needs to be done.”
I was speechless. Never mind that her own parents, (one of whom is in a wheelchair, the other has difficulty walking) in their ground-floor apartment right next door to a large construction project and not far from the bayou, would be utterly doomed in the event of a hurricane (which is not out of the question, as we live in Houston) if she and several of her siblings didn’t live close enough or didn’t have the finances to arrange an evacuation plan to take care of them.
I don’t know if she honestly believes that Corporate America has our best interests at heart, or if it simply has not occurred to her that so many people are so much worse off in this situation than anyone she knows personally.
my family from east texas is currently staying with me, drove all night to miss the heat of the day.
what’s really getting me about the NOLA evac-refusers, especially those that simply don’t have the funds, is that NOLA made provisions for over 10k medical and 30k regular evacuees. the medical were removed on friday to arkansas, dallas, austin, and some to houston. the busses for FREE evacuation to shelters with organized food, beds, and so on, i might add (austin alone has 25k beds open). the city set up multiple gathering points to get on the bus, and even had a phone number to call to get picked up if you could not get to the evacuation bus point.
at last check, less than 15k people have taken advantage of the 30k bus seats. the last bus is scheduled, i think, for early monday. i get very frustrated by people that refuse to help themselves when help is quite literally knocking on the door… I know it is a mental condition, but it still frustrates the tar out of me.
It’s personally nice to know that Shapelings are thinking of us. I go to LSU and plan to ride out the storm here in Baton Rouge. Baton Rouge is pretty far inland and we’re not freaked out about it, but y’all, New Orleans is my hometown, and if the same shit (or worse) happens all over again I’m gonna cry.
And you know, I had no idea there’d be no last resort shelters. I have 3 grandparents in New Orleans, and even though 1 should be in Indiana by now and the other 2 in Arkansas, it scares me to think of them getting stuck there and having no where to go. A lot of people simply can’t get out, but let’s be clear: I’ve read of cases where during Katrina, people were stupid and decided to stay because they thought they’d seen it all and could ride it out. They had easy transportation out of the city, they were just stubborn and decided to stay and have a hurricane party. Yes, that happens, but even though those people made a mistake they STILL deserve a freaking shelter. The bottom line is, they are lives that need protecting, and nobody should discriminate when it comes to lives. But sadly people do. All the time.
AL, I completely agree. People make dumb decisions, but the government really should still make shelter available to them. Nobody wants to evacuate and leave all their property at risk. It’s not like that makes the hurricane their fault!
(…what’s also not their fault: how our past attempts to control the environment around that area have basically set the city up for destruction. Just one mistake after another in land management.)
Heck, I don’t even want to sound judgmental of the people that don’t leave even though they can, because I don’t know what their reasoning is. Sometimes it goes something like,” I have health issues, if I stay here I have everything I need, and besides, I lived through worse,” etc. In any case it’s absurd to expect the city to be 100% people-free, therefore there should be a shelter. Dammit.
I couldn’t believe the “no shelter of last resort” thing. In order to avoid having people holed up and starving in an unprepared facility, we -just don’t have a facility!- Brilliant!
Oh good, much smaller storm surge than Katrina. They’re getting tornadoes tonight, though, and still the huge winds, and they expect the hurricane to slow down once it hits land so the rain will be “catastrophic.”
Did I encourage anyone to turn their backs on those in NO? Did I claim my opinion was more valid than those of people there? Did I say anything about “accepting death by hurricane”? Did I say that anybody “deserved it”?
Quite a lot has been read into my short posts, and quite a few rather hysterical assumptions have been made.
“Death by hurricane?” Please.
I also hope this doesn’t do the same damage Katrina does. Doesn’t look good though. The thing is hundreds of miles from my house yet there’s still decent wind and rain ’round here.
My thoughts are with everyone in that area too.
Oh, well, then. Now that you’ve called me hysterical, I totally see the light, Janey.
Well I for one feel better now (sarcasm intended) Britt Hume in all his glory, wearing a vest indicating that he is “in the field” with the natives, broadcasting live from New Orleans stated that aroung 1.9 Million people have evacuated the city. Britt looked into the camera like reliable hound dog, In his sonorous voice he says, “So now its certain that anyone who stays behind is doing so voluntarily.” Phew – I am glad we have settled the issue that it’s all their own fault. Thank you MSM.
I’m appalled that once again people are not allowed to take their pets. If I were there, there would be no way in hell I’d leave without my dog, I don’t care how “mandatory” they say the evacuation is.
I wish there was something I could do to keep animals and their families together.
Liza, I thought people could bring their pets when they evacuated this time – there were climate controlled trucks just for pet transport with the buses. Did you hear that there were other places where they weren’t doing that? That would be awful, I agree. It was the biggest reason people stayed behind for Katrina, apparently, and it’s always a big reason people don’t evacuate an area or go to shelters when they should.
http://www.tippypaws.com/2008/09/01/pets-and-hurricane-gustav/
It looks like pets are much better being accommodated this time around, Liza. Where are you getting your information?
I work in public health in TN and we have received thousands of evacuees. They DID allow people to bring pets this time, though I’m sure there were rules/limits. Our site received several dogs, cats, etc.
Also, there have been many, many people with serious medical needs (e.g. dialysis).
I also am confused about the disconnect between what my experience at work has been and the CNN article. I am absolutely not saying that some of those things aren’t happening, it just seems very different than what I have been seeing.
RE: the undocumented immigrant issue. In my experience working with immigrants, even when government agencies do have the best of intentions and nobody would be in danger of deportation, there is not necessarily a way for the immigrant community to know this outside of experience. I often have to make it clear up front that I am not ICE and have nothing to do with ICE and will not report anyone. I have observed a lot of fear in the immigrant community (particularly the non-English speaking community) often fueled by lack of information in the community’s language.
I’m attempting to go totally anonymous for this, for obvious reasons, but I’m a regular lurker and occasional commenter here. I work in a position that’s tangentially related to emergency preparedness, and I’ve seen some of the things Louisiana (both the state and some areas that include the city of NOLA, although not the city itself) is doing to try to be better prepared than they were during Katrina.
Given what I’ve seen in the documents, you couldn’t pay me enough to live in Louisiana. Not only has the state really not learned anything, they’re still massively unprepared (although to be fair they’re getting better). What’s worse is that [government officials] have a staggering contempt for the residents of their own state. Some of them are convinced that the ONLY reason people didn’t evacuate in Katrina was that they were afraid they’d lose their valuables, and that the ONLY reason campers/trailers/etc. were clogging up the evacuation routes was that people wouldn’t want to lose “second cars and recreation vehicles.” Not because, you know, people knew they’d be LIVING out of those vehicles until they could return home.
I would not want these people in charge of my safety.
I work for the court and my experiences with illegal aliens are similar to rebster’s. When the victim of a crime is undocumented, very often no number of assurances that we are not ICE and won’t report them to ICE will make them feel safe enough to cooperate with the prosecutor’s office. There are opportunistic criminals who know this, and deliberately prey upon them just for that reason.
I agree that some of the fear is due to lack of information in their native tongue, but I’m sure the general sentiment post-9/11 adds to it. Also, in my state, whenever law enforcement arrests someone for a felony or DWI and has reason to believe the arrestee is an illegal alien, they are legally bound to report it to I.C.E. This directive came about last summer after an illegal alien who should have remained incarcerated on already-pending serious charges (and would have, had he had an I.C.E. detainer) somehow was allowed to make bail…and then he shot 4 teenagers execution style on a playground.
I can’t say I support illegal immigration – we waited 10 years to come here legally – but I certainly understand what motivates people to do it. In my experience, most people come here just to work and send money home to their families; they want nothing other than just to live their lives. However, if you come here and kill people, molest children, assault people, etc, then I have no problem with deportation. I just completed a training at work led by the Supervisory Deportation Officer of the local I.C.E. office regarding the aforementioned directive, and that is apparently their stance as well. Their resources are limited – they’re not concerned about the folk who are just living their lives and not harming anyone, just the criminals.
Shortly after I posted that, I learned that people were not only allowed to take their pets but they were even getting tags and barcodes to attach to collars so they can be reunited if they were separated.
I jumped the gun based on hearsay, and I’m very happy to be wrong on this one.
Because, frankly, if that happened here and I couldn’t take my dog, the gov’t would essentially be responsible for my death as I would stay wherever Zelda was.
whoops, could essentially be responsible. Not would, because it’s not inevitable.
I thought I posted this yesterday…I must be mistaken.
I apologize, Kate, for the word “hysterical”. Since I would never say or even imply anything like “death by hurricane” should be a consequence faced by an illegal immigrant, I felt your reaction was excessive. Perhaps I should have used the word “dramatic” instead.
I have to say, it’s so nice to see a lot of comments here that are basically sympathetic to people living in “Hurricane Alley,” as opposed to a lot of opining about how NOLA is a stupid place to live, they should demolish the whole city, etc. (Largest port in the country, anyone?)
This one didn’t turn out to be quite as bad as we thought. A lot of us are still a little shaken after Katrina, and thank goodness, we did seem to learn some lessons from that. The losses were not nearly so great this time.
But there is damage. There is always some damage after a large storm. Many people are without power, running water, etc. in South Louisiana and the Mississippi coast. The claims people from all the major insurance carriers are out, and the utility companies are working hard. If you’d like to help in some material way, the best thing you can offer is not necessarily money. After Katrina, many churches and other civic organizations came down with trucks full of food, water, clothes, and furniture. These things were priceless to those of us who went through that storm, and I’m sure they would be to the wind blown people in the hardest hit areas this time too.
If you live near one of the shelters, you might ask if they need anything. Often certain items get neglected in panicked packing, and some people will have forgotten to bring their toothbrushes, enough clean underwear, pet toys and food, books, games, magazines, etc. If you happen to have some of these small things around, there are people who could use them. If a church or other organization in your area is planning on making a run to bring clothes, etc. consider cleaning out your closet. Some shapelings might find their donations particularly welcome. I understand they tore through piles of plus sized women’s clothing after Katrina on the coast.
I was fortunate this time that the storm did nothing more than knock down a few tree branches in my city. And knowing I can afford to buy more if there’s another hurricane, I plan to send a few cases of bottled water, some batteries, and some food items from my own hurricane stash to the shelter just outside town. Big thanks to anyone else who does the same. I remember how being able to brush my teeth and change my clothes after a week of Katrina aftermath felt life changing, and I hope we can do that for someone else.
Apologies for the wall of text, everyone. This one kind of hits close to home. :)
Also, if folks need clothes in the gulf coast after the wreckage of Gustav, those of us with plus sized clothes to spare should think about donating them to charitable organizations in the region accepting clothing donations. There were isolated reports during the aftermath of Katrina about the lack of plus sized clothing for relocated people in shelters in the region.
Emmy, I understand what you’re saying. It’s really, really frustrating to be a geoscientist trained in hazards and watch what happens to people living in really dangerous areas. I think that’s why a lot of people get annoyed and suggest residents should just move somewhere a little bit safer. But that ignores the human side of it, and that’s been a very important lesson for me to learn. Was it frustrating to watch people move back to NOLA? Kind of. In some ways the place is just ticking. But, right – huge port, people own property and have businesses, folks don’t want to lose everything they have, emotional attachment is very important, etc. etc. etc. There’s much more to it than just, “Don’t live anywhere with significant hazards.” (Hi Seattle, I’m looking at you!)