Learn to troll logic

Since it’s been shooting trolls in a barrel week, I couldn’t resist sharing this gem from the moderation queue:

I don’t believe that anyone *chooses* to be a large size, but I feel that we all have a choice in whether or not we let ourselves get there.

You don’t choose to be fat! You just choose to let yourself get fat! Don’t you understand?

190 thoughts on “Learn to troll logic

  1. Suddenly it all makes sense! I can’t believe I didn’t see this before. I wish I had spent more time learning to logic in school, and then maybe I wouldn’t have wasted so many years not seeing this totally obvious bit of reasoning.

  2. Maybe this deserves a post of its own, but did anyone else see the results of the Parade “should fat people buy 2 airline seats” poll yesterday? Our issue of Parade (along with the rest of the Sunday paper) has already been recycled, but they printed 2 quotes to go along with the poll results – one for, one against. The “for” quote didn’t register with me – more of the same old shit we hear everyday. It was the “against” quote that made me throw up a little in my mouth. I wish I could quote it exactly, but I can’t, so I’ll paraphrase (and hope someone else can copy it word for word): “It’s unfair to make fat people pay for an extra seat because we’re dealing with an addiction just like drugs or alcohol.”

    Out of all the commenting that went on over at Parade, much of it by bright, articulate FA’s, that’s the absolute best they could come up with? The one that paints us as whiny victims who just can’t put down the baby donuts because we’re addicted? Not that you’re biased or anything, Parade. Oh no, not you.

  3. I guess I chose to let myself get tall, too. And also, I didn’t choose to be redheaded with freckles everywhere — I just chose to let myself be Irish! Wow, this is all such a relief.

  4. I don’t believe that anyone *chooses* to be a troll , but I feel that we all have a choice in whether or not we let ourselves remain ignorant and obnoxious.

    Fixed.

  5. TR, could we do some kindof height transplant do you think? I’ve got about 3 inches I don’t need. I really should have chosen to stop earlier.

  6. OT- I was just reading the comments on the lol your fat thread, and someone said something that made my heart skip. Anthony Bourdain is a fat hater? Is this true? Does anyone know? Please say it isn’t so!

  7. I feel badly for the Trolls. No, not the idiots who comment on blogs without any clue as to their own stupidity, but the actual trolls…who live under bridges and demand baby donuts for safe passage. To be associated with these others is horrific.

  8. The Rotund, on July 28th, 2008 at 3:12 pm Said:
    Dammit, I wish I hadn’t chosen to let myself stop growing – it isn’t like I chose to be short.

    Oh, yes it is! Like you, I was foolish enough to choose short parents. Honestly, what the hell did I expect when neither one clears 5′ 6″?

  9. Yeah I’ll second the thought on Bourdain. He made a joke on one of his episodes that he was so cold he needed a hot chocolate and two fat chicks to keep him warm.
    All while he’s pushing fois gras.

  10. I am SO pissed. All he does on his show is eat, like, A LOT. Of really, really rich and fatty food. What a fuckneck. And his “come have sex with our womenfolk” comment in the article Meowser linked to is disgusting. I really loved No Reservations. Now? Not so much.

  11. (wibbles)

    That’s it. No more Bourdain or Ramsey for me. It hurst, but I’m not going to bring that fat hate into my home.

    Topic: you know, I didn’t CHOOSE to be very pale, short, and left-handed, but I LET myself GET all those ways.

    And for those who say there weren’t any fat people in the past and genetics has nothing to do with adult weight, I have five fucking generations of family photos on my wall that beg to differ.

  12. I feel badly for the Trolls. No, not the idiots who comment on blogs without any clue as to their own stupidity, but the actual trolls…who live under bridges and demand baby donuts for safe passage. To be associated with these others is horrific.

    I agree. Poor, innocent bridge trolls. And what about the “troll” dolls with the spiky hair? They’re cute.
    Can anyone explain to me how the term “troll” became something applied to these people? I’m curious.

  13. I have five fucking generations of family photos on my wall that beg to differ.

    Last week, I was wearing a vintage-style dress with a belt around the middle that really accentuated my hour glass tendencies, threw on some dark lipstick for shits and giggles, stopped for a mirror check…

    …and stared at the spitting image of my grandmother, c. 1948. I have a photo of her from around that time sitting on my mantle and I swear, I was a couple of victory rolls and a pair of short gloves away from being her twin. It was eerie, but totally awesome to connect the shape of my body so directly to my genetic roots.

  14. Bourdain is an ass, but he’s made a career of it so no surprise there.

    Now, please, no one come up with any fat-hating comments from Andrew Zimmern — I want there to be one travel and food show I can watch without flinching (other than at the sight of an occasional fricaseed bat).

  15. I’ve never watched Bourdain, but I thought the commercials looked interesting. Guess I won’t be a fan. IMHO, he says things in that interview that are far more offensive than just what he has to say about fat people. He seems to have issues with humanity in general, and some attitudes that would be more appropriate and becoming if he were, say, a sophomore in college and one could hope he would outgrow them. It’s all of a piece.

    I have seen Ramsey, and he’s such a hostile control freak that I’d be astonished if he didn’t hate fat people. I know he has fans who say he is merely a passionate chef and teacher, and there may well be something to that. But to me, he just seems like a foulmouthed jackass.

  16. GREAT FLYING MONKEY NUGGETS. Reading the article by Bourdain absolutely DEVASTATED me. I used to love that show. Now that he’s broken my heart so thoroughly, I don’t think I can ever watch it again. I mean, I knew he was a jackass, but I always thought he was an open-minded jackass. Now I see that he’s like… like a PETA member that hates vegans. (And please, don’t even get me started on PETA).

    Thank heavens I read the “circular logic” thing AFTER that. I almost choked laughing at it. I love how it’s inherent beauty makes it inherently beautiful. XD

    If anybody else needs more funny after Bourdain’s horrible betrayal, let me know and I’ll tell you all about the bat that got in our house last night, and the inherently adventuresome adventures inherent in getting one out of your house once its in.

  17. I guess we should all stop LETTING ourselves eat baby-flavored donuts – if we ate real, organic free-range baby donuts we’d be much healthier. I mean, do you *know* what kind of chemicals they use to make baby-flavor?

  18. OH! And re: why it’s called “trolling” and “trolls” (as you can see, today I have lost my ability to shut up)–

    My best guess is that the word comes, not from the fantastical creature Troll, but from the term trolling, which is, if I remember aright, a fishing term. When one comes into a thread, baits others with purposefully offensive comments, and then digs in for a fight once someone takes them up on it, they’re “trolling” for arguments, or attention, or what have you.

    From there the negative association with the creatures (which is too bad because I also fondly remember they brightly haired figures) made the name seem awfully apropos.

    More entertaining stories and completely un-backed-up guesses at 11. Wait, it’s past noon already. Wellp, guess I’m glad I’m not a news station then, because darn if I’m not all hyper and chatty today!

  19. NOOOOOOOO! My husband and I watch HK (although I wouldn’t watch the episode with all of the “hot women” that “fluster” the male chefs, pluheezzz) However, he swore to me up and down that Chef Ramsey doesn’t like the fatties, and I just refused to believe it. Looks like he was right. Although, in all fairness perhaps both Bourdain and Ramsey are merely misinformed (like a lot of people are) I would hope that they would respond well to a little more information from a source other then the mainstream media (which they proclaim to hate, natch, but obviously have gotten all their view on fat from there)

  20. I guess we should all stop LETTING ourselves eat baby-flavored donuts – if we ate real, organic free-range baby donuts we’d be much healthier.

    I absolutely insist on making my baby-flavoured doughnuts from scratch using only the freshest, cutest babies!

    Flounces off in cloud of self-approval.

  21. Oh Gordon Ramsay, alas. There goes my dream of seeing Mr. I someday compete on HK. (Though, this means it would be even MORE likely that he would punch Gordon in the face… which still sounds like good TV to me.)

  22. Yes, it is. I thought maybe I had just been pronouncing “trolling” with a hilarious Eastern Shore/Chesapeake Bay-style accent for 35 years. (Would not be the first time.)

  23. From Wikipedia:

    Etymology: The contemporary use of the term first appeared on Usenet groups in the late 1980s. It is thought to be a truncation of the phrase trolling for suckers, itself derived from the fishing technique known as trolling.[3] The word likely gained currency because of its apt second meaning, drawn from the trolls portrayed in Scandinavian folklore and children’s tales; they are often ugly, obnoxious creatures bent on mischief and wickedness.

  24. In fishing, “trolling” is a method of fishing where one or more fishing lines, baited with lures or bait fish, are drawn through the water behind a moving boat. Posting inflammatory comments just to get a response was called “trolling for suckers”, and eventually “trolling”.

    From that, calling those who are trolling “trolls” was a simple case of nouning the verb – and bring the allusion to the mythical creatures called “trolls”.

  25. The thing that gets me about Bourdain is that he so clearly thinks that it’s his lifestyle and inherent coolness that is somehow “keeping” him thin. Um, it couldn’t be anything to do with your genetics and/or the cigarettes and/or the many years of drug abuse?

  26. Wow, who’da thunk. I actually guessed it. With the wacky nature of word etymology, it’s generally surprising to me when a guess based on common knowledge or something that sounds plausible or sensible actually turns out to be true or partly true.

    *pumps fist* YAR! I’m on a (t)roll today. :D

  27. (last OT post, I swear)

    Nicole- It’s totally his inherent coolness. He admits he never works out and he gets breathless climbing short steep hills that I could run up. I like(d) the show b/c it gave me such wonderful traveling fantasies. After I found out about Alton Brown’s fat hatred, I found me some Bourdain. I think I’ll just stick with playing my Wii from now on when I need down time. Oh, wait…

  28. Someone mentioned chefs being control freaks, so of course they’d hate fatties. I think that’s really at the root of what a LOT of people fear about fat (and fatties), and what ties back to the idea that we’ve “let ourself get fat”: LOSING CONTROL. Control, especially when it comes to our bodies, is a panicky self-delusion at best because people, we’re talking about ENTROPY and MESS and AGING and DEATH. (I’m not shouting, I just don’t know how to code for italics.) Happens to us, happens to stars and baby otters and fruit flies and jellyfish and trees and all of it.

    But owing to the religious baggage the US (well, and the Commonwealth) inherited, all that entropy and fat and aging signifies, in this day and age, is moral impurity. Letting that show means that we’ve let ourselves go, not only bodily, but spiritually as well. The righteous are ever-vigilant against this kind of decay.

    In a weird way, then, part of Bourdain’s story–not his writing, but his STORY, how he presents himself as character and adventure and swashbuckling eater of crazy shit–is not that he’s a prick (okay, that’s part of his story, but it’s not crucial or interesting or idiosyncratic, far from it), but that he is walking that fine line. He eats like there’s no tomorrow, he eats everything, he eats pig on the hoof and rich Frenchy food and everything in between. And yet he is still disciplined, still virtuous, in fact, even more virtuous by, er, virtue of the lifestyle he leads. Look at everything he’ll eat in pursuit of sharing that experience vicariously with his audience. What a saint, to choke down that food! He must be a fucking superhero underneath that brutish exterior, underneath that hedonistic facade, under that, frankly, out-of-control lifestyle he leads. Because he? Isn’t fat.

    I have seen several articles recently, about chefs or other foodies trying to lose weight, and that plot, of struggling valiantly against the terrible demands of one’s profession (tasting everything! using butter! surrounded by chocolate! Oh, God, the exquisite torture!), is VERY common in such accounts. Bourdain’s virtue, as a strong-willed and thin disciple of good food, is challenged less overtly, but that’s how it reads to me when you juxtapose his exploits with his attitudes about fatties.

    * for the record, I don’t think it’s wrong to eat pig on the hoof or eat a ton of food or live a hedonistic lifestyle. I would love to try pig on the hoof.

    ** I really enjoyed Kitchen Confidential. I don’t watch TV, except through torrents and Youtube, so I don’t know about his show. But I’m not surprised by his fatphobia. Many of the cooks I knew during my 4-5 years in food service, and a lot of the servers, were very contemptuous of the people they were serving the food to. It was difficult being a fat waitress.

  29. I’m not so sure about that Wikipedia explanation of “troll.” I had heard it explained as being rooted in the well-known propensity of trolls to hide under bridges and come out to ruin things for the unsuspecting.

  30. Wait, what? Alton Brown hates fat people too.? Next your going to tell me that the guy who hosts Iron Chef isn’t really the Chairman’s nephew.

  31. Trawl and troll are both fishing terms, but they are different kinds of fishing. Trawl=net, troll=line.

  32. bigmovesbabe- Wow, that makes a lot of sense. I am impressed by your ability to logic.

    vivelafat- Yeah, it was discussed somewhere in the fatosphere. AB basically said that when fat people come to his book signings, it makes him cringe b/c they should be out walking instead of watching his show.

    You see, people, this isn’t really OT, b/c both Alton Brown and Bourdain and all of the rest of the thin chefs simply decided to not be fat, so they haven’t become so. The fat chefs decided that they would allow all of the food to turn to fat in their bodies.

  33. Today I got a trifecta in one comment!

    1) An entire starving African nation could be fed by what you stuffed in your gullet

    2) You were on disability, ergo, 30% of my money went to you

    3) You are the reasons everyone has high insurance costs!

    It was kind of magical!

  34. Next your going to tell me that the guy who hosts Iron Chef isn’t really the Chairman’s nephew.

    Oh…. dear. You might want to sit down. (-;

  35. My brain doesn’t believe in the heteronormative institution of traditional two-person marriages, but if you’re okay with all the other relationships my brain has, then join the puppy pile!

    Ew. Puppy pile of horny brains. Let’s find another metaphor.

  36. My brain is polyamorous, so I am totally down with that.

    How about… guppy pile? Those little stinkers put rabbits to shame on the breeding front. XD

  37. Aw, not Alton Brown… (Bourdain doesn’t surprise me. He’s offended me in so many other ways his fat-phobia is just a sprinkle on the cupcake)

    And all this troll talk had me thinking. In Harry Potter the worst grade you can get at Hogwarts is a “T”, which stands for “Troll.” Just another amusing way in which the term troll=FAIL.

  38. That’s too bad about Alton Brown. Kind of a bummer that he thinks fat people should never take a break from walking and watch tv like everybody else.

    If these people in the public sphere have no problem going on record saying this stuff about fat people, I think there should be a way to let them know just how many fat people now refuse to FATTEN THEIR WALLETS with book purchases, etc.

  39. I meant to put a period after “isn’t”. Oops.

    Punctuation must reside in the 2/3 of the brain that’s made up of fat, which you decided not to have.

  40. AL– that’s because in the Harry Potter universe, Trolls, like fat people, are all abysmally stupid.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m an HP fan (in a mild sense) so I’m not saying the books were crap, but the fat hate is there.

    And omg Kristin, didn’t my brain see your brain at Starbucks the other day? What a tiny world! I’d say we should do brainlunch, but we’ve got to watch our gray matter so it doesn’t get too chunky!

  41. You have to use troll reverse-logic, people.

    When they say “I don’t believe anyone *chooses* to be a larger size?”

    You just say “what about Sumo wrestlers? *They* choose to be a larger size”.

  42. Oh, and the phrase I was looking for when writing my longer note further up:

    In the world, but not of it.

    If you are of the world, you show all the signs of being mortal and human: fat, age, etc.

    Bourdain, as well as those chefs who eat virtuously and walk for miles, they are (or are trying) to make their living in a world of fabulous food, but not be _of_ that world, or at least not show any signs to their patrons and viewers that could be interpreted as being of it. I don’t give a shit about Bourdain, but I could see that, for the chefs, that could be a little crazy-making.

    Okay, so I have to wonder, then: how does that Southern-fried fabulous fattie do it, what’s her name? How has she gotten away with the show that she does, doing the food that she does? Or has she? Are there snarkmonsters after her for being a fat female chef, or what?

  43. Yah know, hate is hate. The fact that the Hell’s Kitchen guy is a fat hater doesn’t surprise me, given that his show is basically a hate show. I can’t watch reality TV for that very reason. So much of it is a Parade of Hate.

    I did see the Parade Magazine poll results, and had the exact same response as Christine to the ‘addiction’ quote — “wtf?”

    Aaaaand… I’m going to — yes — I’m going to draw a parallel! Someone posted that they were disappointed in a chef who was a fat hater ‘while pushing foie gras.’ To me, this is buying into the concept that we’re fat because we all sit around sucking down foie gras, not because our genes gave us superior metabolisms (oh, yeah, baby — those supermodels would drop like flies on the tundra, while I would survive to procreate another day). Don’t go there! Chefs that hate fat people can push all the foie gras they want, it won’t make the genetically thin person fat, NO MATTER HOW MUCH OF IT THEY EAT. This is the corollary to the genetic basis of body size that needs to be drilled into peoples’ heads. We’re not fat because we’re addicts, or because we eat foie gras, or because of the forty-seven million other incorrect ideas marketed to the public about us, we’re fat for the same reason thin people are thin: because our genes want us that way. And hating people because of their genetic heritage is just wrong.

    Love, Minerva

  44. minerva, I think the idea was that Bourdain genuinely thinks that foie gras will make you fat, and genuinely thinks that fat is gross and horrible. But he’s still all about the foie gras. Just as long as you don’t, you know, choose to let yourself get fat after you eat it.

  45. Chefs that hate fat people can push all the foie gras they want, it won’t make the genetically thin person fat, NO MATTER HOW MUCH OF IT THEY EAT. This is the corollary to the genetic basis of body size that needs to be drilled into peoples’ heads. We’re not fat because we’re addicts, or because we eat foie gras, or because of the forty-seven million other incorrect ideas marketed to the public about us, we’re fat for the same reason thin people are thin…

    Brava! I’d just like to add that fat people may or may not have eating disorders, including binge eating and anorexia, but so do average-sized and thin people. I do think that fat people (and those around them) tend to pathologize things that everyone does.

    An example: I used to think I was “bingeing” because I’d eat a “ton” (i.e. not a ton) of food just before my period. Honestly where did I think all those “I need chocolate” jokes came from?

  46. Filly — Ah, OK, now the circular logic is starting to make (no)sense…

    On a side note, how does one ‘quote’ here? I can’t figure it out….

    Love, Min

  47. Reading that comment…all I could think of was the old “good fatty” argument of “well, yes, I suppose we could grudgingly admit that yes, maybe it is your genes, but that just doesn’t matter because as a fatty it is still your duty and responsibility to spend all your time and energy fighting that genetic heritage. And if you do, maybe we’ll just look at you with pity instead of disgust because you know, we don’t really care that it’s all futile and will screw you up mentally and physically – you have to try because it makes us happier and it reinforces our belief that we are superior and we will not age or die because we are not fat and you owe us penance because you are.”

    Which makes about as much sense as the first comment anyway.

    It’s Monday all over, isn’t it?

  48. Alton Brown? Seriously?
    I’ve seen a few most beautimous fatties on his show….Food Historians and such.
    I think I might go cry if Alton Brown turns out to be a fat hater….

  49. Nah the Wiki’s got it right on “troll”. The commenter is looking for someone to take the bait so they can derail a comment into a ridiculous flame war. The fatty site trolls just wanna see Teh Fat Bitchez get their panties in a bunch and giggle in their immature way when teh fatties rage at their ‘avatar.’

    Alton? Say it ain’t so…. ::sniffles:: But but …. I lub Alton….
    Phooey.

  50. Bigmovesbabe, the Southern-fried fabulous fattie you’re trying to think of is Paula Deen.

    Somehow, she and Ina Garten (otherwise known as the Barefoot Contessa) manage to be a) female, b) fat, and c) Abso-fucking-lutely awesome in the kitchen.

    Okay, I admit I find Paula a little hit and miss to my tastes. I don’t turn on the Food Network to learn how to make casseroles out of canned condensed soup and potato chip crusts…but I love the fact that she shows it’s possible to make decent food out of that AND appreciate and be able to work with fresher, more gourmet ingredients. And I’m certainly more willing to sit though an ocassional condensed soup and mayonnaise recipe out of Paula Deen than I am to hear a single word Sandra Lee has to say about the ‘food’ she makes.

  51. SugarLeigh – I’m aware of HP’s fat stereotypes, but I didn’t connect them to trolls because I don’t think of trolls as fat, but merely big. But, considering Crabbe and Goyle, who were big and who I’m positive were compared to trolls (or something similar) – and then there’s Hagrid, and then the other giants – I guess in Rowling’s universe big=stupid. Which makes me sad because I would’ve liked to handout Ts to internet trolls. Oh well.

    And bigmovesbabe, you mean Paula Deen? I love her! I seriously doubt that she’s gotten away with her southern-fried goodness – Bourdain may’ve even ripped on her (hating other chefs/cooks is his favorite sport) – but I don’t care to find out.

  52. Okay, I’ve known about Bourdain for a long time (you know, his Rachel Ray is a big fat fatty comment), yet he professes to be friends with Andrew Zimmern – in fact, they were on Zimmern’s show together. Maybe it’s b/c AZ is a man and not someone Bourdain sees sexually? And Alton – I try try try to pretend I don’t know about the fat hate. He has put on weight since his show started, too, for the record. Not that it matters, just sayin,’ you know, that people gain weight for a variety of reasons. And let’s not forget Jamie Oliver, the Naked Chef, who thinks that parents who feed their kids chicken nuggets ought to be arrested for child abuse. And then, to top it off, my sweet, sweet Jorge Garcia mentioned how much he loves both Bourdain and Oliver on his blog. It made me sad b/c he obviously doesn’t know about the hate and how both of those “men” would probably give him shit for his weight.

    And someone asked about Paula Deen – I have heard people talk smack about her for how she cooks; how it’s irresponsible. I think her basic argument was that adults can make their own decisions and that she doesn’t eat like that all the time – it’s just a show. I just love how much pleasure she takes in the food she cooks. Have you ever seen her eyes roll back in her head? :-D

  53. Oh… also many feel that you can point to your fatty ancestors and not see the genetics but merely that all the way back to the beginning Your fatty people have been teaching their children the WRONG way to eat, hence you have inherited the wrong way to eat and so it’s Your fault for not breaking the cycle.

    I have had that one tossed obliquely in my direction from a ‘married into the family’ thin person. You have turkey, mashed potatoes, dressing, and god forbid Pumpkin Pie on Thanksgiving! No wonder you’re fat!

  54. You have turkey, mashed potatoes, dressing, and god forbid Pumpkin Pie on Thanksgiving! No wonder you’re fat!

    Gosh, I almost feel sorry for those thin families where they only have celery and rice cakes on holidays.

  55. On a side note, how does one ‘quote’ here? I can’t figure it out….

    You can use the blockquote tag, but in the past it’s messed up the comments for some people. So most people go with the italicizing convention — [i] at the beginning and [/i] at the end, only with angle brackets instead of square brackets — and that is usually clear enough.

  56. What was that show on PBS with the two female english chefs on a motorcycle? I loved them, and both were fat. One was blondish, the other wore very thick glasses and unashamedly dyed-black hair. She was an absolute hoot! I believe she died several years ago, and the show went away. They always finished their show with a glass of wine at a scenic location…

  57. That was Two Fat Ladies. I believe they wrote a series of books as well.

    Oh, and when one died, the haters said it was because she was fat.

  58. LilahCello, her personality tickles me too. Food-wise I can’t really say. I saw a show where she made deviled eggs, and I thought “I can do better than that!” but in the same show she made a chocolate pie, and I swear, the look on her face as she deliberated whether to top it with whip cream or icecream – and then decided both! – priceless. I love watching people actually enjoy food.

  59. You have turkey, mashed potatoes, dressing, and god forbid Pumpkin Pie on Thanksgiving! No wonder you’re fat!

    Someone in my family Invariably obsesses about their diet on Thanksgiving. Fortunately since they are family I get to tell them that they are being idiotic and they still have to hang out with me!

  60. Ooooo, bigmovesbabe, I LOVE me some Paula Dean. I think there is such a huge dichotomy in chefs between the food that they cook, and the way that they expect people to enjoy said food. How is it possible that you can cook a lobster risotto with full butter, and cream and then expect that only thin people will enjoy it. That’s the irony of the whole thing. Most of the celebs that are at LONDON (in NY natch) aren’t really eating anything. *Note, I am in no way saying that thin people can’t enjoy food, but have you seen the majority of food critics and judges on Top Chef and Iron Chef? Most of them are overweight (Of course the CHOOSE to be fat). Perhaps, this has to do with most chef’s hatred of overweight patrons.
    Also the fact that Bourdain, Brown and Ramsey are all males, and as such have different factors that go into weight loss, I’m sure does not occur to them at all. In fact I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to find out all of them harbor some sort of misogynistic views as well. Ok, ok , end threadjack. Sorry.

  61. I’m fairly new to the FA movement, so I still find it hard to decide what type of comment is bad enough that you would hold it against someone (e.g. comments by certain chefs mentioned above). Unfortunately, people believe that fat is unhealthy. My guess is the vast majority of people believe that. So is it really enough to boycott someone on that view?

    The big problem for me is the digging comments that come along with that view for some people. The “I think you might lay off both [food and his show] and go for a walk” comments. The “chawing themselves listlessly to death on crap” comments. I think they are not only misinformed, but they’re mean and thoughtless.

    However, I hate to admit that I’ve always been a bit of a Gordon Ramsey fangirl. I read the comments that he made and found myself trying to rationalize them. “It’s not bad that he encourages fitness”, “Maybe he doesn’t say you have to be under xxx pounds, but merely that you need to stay close to your current weight”, or even “Maybe you do need to be fit to do that job, and possibly that’s his big requirement”. While all of this is probably malarkey, at least I could pretend. Unfortunately, stuff like the following really annoys me and it would be enough to turn me off even without the staff-weighing:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-466095/Gordon-Ramsay-Parents-obese-children-fined.html

    I just can’t agree with this at all. Forcing parents to highlight kids’ weight for fear of civil/criminal punishment is just gross (and counterproductive, as is demonstrated in the Don’t You Realize Fat is Unhealthy article). *sigh* I guess it’s just hard to find someone to fangirl nowadays.

    More on topic: I think the reason that people feel this way is that your weight is more dynamic than many of the other traits listed above. No, you can’t let yourself be taller/shorter/freckle-ier/brunette, etc. However, people’s weight fluctuates all the time, sometimes by design, and therefore people assume that you have complete control over its movements. It would be really great if people could realize there are other factors besides the things you eat, it’s not as easy as you seem to think it is, and most of all, there are more important things than your scale!

    [[btw, first comment - please be gentle!]]

  62. Also, I get it, fat isn’t caused by eating fatty foods. I am not trying to push that stereotype, I am trying to shine a spotlight on the illogic nature of their argument.

  63. That was Two Fat Ladies. I believe they wrote a series of books as well.

    Oh, and when one died, the haters said it was because she was fat.

    That just breaks my heart. She was such a wonderful character, and to heap bigotry upon her memory like that is just shameful.

  64. The marvelous Jennifer Paterson of Two Fat Ladies died of lung cancer in 1999. She was also 71, which is not what I’d call a ripe old age, but hardly a teenager either.

    How anybody got “She died of fat” out of that, I have no idea, except on the general principle that if there were no smokers or fat people, no one would ever die. (I don’t know whether Jennifer smoked, not that it matters; smokers don’t “deserve” their conditions, either.)

    Clara was quite a bit younger, but must be in her 60s by now, and is, as far as I know, still rolling fatly and merrily along.

  65. *Note, I am in no way saying that thin people can’t enjoy food, but have you seen the majority of food critics and judges on Top Chef and Iron Chef? Most of them are overweight (Of course they CHOOSE to be fat). Perhaps, this has to do with most chef’s hatred of overweight patrons.

    Ya know, I think there is a Greater Truth in what you say, vive… I think the hatred of fat people springs from fear. Somewhere, inside their tiny little brains, the haters fear becoming fat themselves — not just because of the fat, but, ironically, because of the hatred they will then have to endure from others, and FROM THEMSELVES. They fear their own hate.

    I also wonder if they think that, if they just hate fat enough, it won’t happen to them, or if it does happen to them, that their hate of it will make them DO SOMETHING about it (like what? that magic thing that we all have somehow missed?), that THEY wouldn’t ALLOW themselves to stay fat, like WE DO.

    This is the genesis of my secret guilty shameful wish that everyone in the world could be fat for a year, just to see what it’s like.

  66. I didn’t know Bourdain made a Rachel Ray fatty comment. I do, however, lmao usually when he makes fun of her. It boggles my mind that she has become so popular making recipes straight out of the Pampered Chef cookbook.

  67. THEY wouldn’t ALLOW themselves to stay fat, like WE DO.

    This. Also, I think thin chefs and other thin foodies make Bourdain-like assumptions: “Wow, I eat pate and cream and sugar in moderation all the time, and I’m thin. How much must those fat people be packing away?”

  68. Minerva- Spot on! It’s a catch 22, because if, as they claim, fat is a choice and we all choose to be fat, then they must be actively choosing “not to be fat.” The fact that they are really not choosing “not to be fat” is something that they internalize, and it scares them. They don’t really know why they aren’t fat, but they know it is something they have control over. If they don’t know what they are controlling to maintain their weight, how can they control it? All of a sudden everything becomes a threat, a chance to get fat, even other fat people. If they would just admit that,no, fat is not a choice, they could set aside their fear. Of course that would mean they would also have to set aside their pride over “not being fat.” That’s as ridiculous as men being proud of “not being born women” oh wait……

  69. That’s as ridiculous as men being proud of “not being born women” oh wait……

    HAH! Also, sob.

  70. I don’t really have a dog (polyamorous or otherwise) in the celebrity chef fight, but re: the trolls, I’ve said it before, but this troll comment really proves my point. The trick is to stop just before you’re full… of shit!

  71. 1) Maybe being fat works kind of like flying in the Hitchhiker’s universe. You can’t decide to do it, but if you get distracted at the right moment, you can just let it happen.

    2) I’ll say this about Bourdain – he is a shit-stirrer with other celebs, but he puts a premium on being polite to average people (I saw that Bushmen episode and he was struggling but he emphasized you do NOT look down on people for living the life they live). And unlike many blowhards, he baldly states that he is willing to admit he’s changed his opinion, like about Emeril. So I wonder if it’s possible to educate him? He’s not saying anything that isn’t reflected by our culture at large, but if he were given enough info about a differing perspective to change his mind, I don’t doubt that he’d stand up and say “I was wrong.”

  72. “Wow, I eat pate and cream and sugar in moderation…”
    is almost right, I think. Bourdain, at least, doesn’t do it in moderation, so it’s more like, “Wow, I eat gigantic portions of these foods all the time, so fatties must be eating dumptruck loads”.

    Also, in the interview linked earlier, he said that fatties DON’T eat delicious food like he does…They are getting fat purely on baby flavored donuts.

    Was it FJ or SM who said if they were going to eat themselves fat it would be on fancy cheese? That should be on a billboard.

  73. OMG I gotta chime in on the Paula love!

    What a sweet and adorable lady. I just adore her. I rarely watch the Foodz Channel, but I saw one of her shows and that was it, I was a fan. She made a simple (but amazingly tasty-looking) fried chicken recipe, and I was touched not only by the fact that she actually tastes the food she cooks (I hate cooking shows where it seems like the food was made to be looked at as opposed to consumed), but that she truly was in that moment with it. She was not just putting it in her mouth for the camera without experiencing it (“I never inhaled!”). As she enjoyed her plate of Southern-comfort-style food, and she truly enjoyed it, no “I’m older/ fat/ female/ whatever” body shame or health shame involved, she actually teared up as she talked about the connections the dish brought to her mind about dear family members that are now gone. Anyone who is that comfortable on national TV having a relationship with their body and their food and their memories that doesn’t involve shame, hate, or the “if it feels good, stop” movement, is a damn fine lady in my book.

    I brought her up to my Nana, who watches the cooking shows all the time, and just loved her more after Nana told me about how she started out as a single mother with nothing, making lunches for workers, and is now a huge name with books and TV appearances and a show, but she still apparently does a lot for others and never seems to let it go to her head that she’s in the public eye. One of those feel-good human interest stories of the person who crawls from the depths to the top yet remains a nice person that I hope we as people never tire of. Don’t know if it’s true (or at least all of it) but I hope so.

  74. I think you guys are totally right about thin people looking down on fat people because, well, if *I* don’t get fat eating whatever I want, clearly everyone bigger than me is doing something completely wrong!!

    Frankly, this has always baffled me. I feel like having a thin body has made it REALLY easy for me to understand that you can’t do much to change your own body – it is how it is and you can’t make it a different size, even if ridicule makes you want to. That’s a far easier step than, “If *my* body doesn’t change, everyone else is shaped differently because they don’t take care of themselves.” I mean, how can that possibly be a logical train of thought? How does a person GET there?? And how self-righteous and unable to look beyond your own nose to you have to be to think that’s realistic?

  75. Bourdain whined in the afterword for the paperback edition of Kitchen Confidential that between the book tour and the TV show his hands were looking NICE, not like a chef’s hands at all.

    From his references to the “stairmaster” of working in a kitchen in NYC – where the walk-in and other storage is below the kitchen – I kinda wondered if the TV show was getting him out of shape, too. Fortunately he has the cigarettes to keep him thin, so he’s “healthier” than teh fatties.

  76. Shinobi, I will gladly take those three inches from you. Let’s work on that!

    Sniper – I was adopted and have no idea what my biological parents were like. Now, I shake my fist at them as they must have been short and condemned me to this woeful existence! *handtoforehead*

    *laugh*

  77. Now, I shake my fist at them as they must have been short and condemned me to this woeful existence!

    Well, only if you believe in “genetics” and “heredity” like some kind of science freak.

  78. I feel like having a thin body has made it REALLY easy for me to understand that you can’t do much to change your own body

    One thing this blog has taught me is that naturally very thin people usually get it a HELL of a lot faster than anybody else except other fat people. (In fact, sometimes, they get it a hell of a lot faster than fat people.)

    Everyone knows that person who “eats whatever she wants and never gains weight,” but so few people who aren’t that person actually think through the existence of such folks to its logical conclusion: What you eat doesn’t actually have all that much to do with how fat you are. And they almost never take the next step — “Hmm, if Lynne can eat a lot while remaining thin, I wonder if there are people who don’t eat much but remain fat.” People who have at some point struggled or wished to gain weight, however, usually have no trouble grokking that you can change your eating habits all you fucking want, and your body will still do what it wants to do — even when they’ve never heard or thought about FA before. (People who have been called names and ridiculed for being too thin also often intuitively understand why bagging on fatties sucks — go figure.)

  79. I think you’re right about people being afraid of their own hate.

    Then of course there is the, well if I’m wrong about fat, what ELSE could I be wrong about?!!? And most people I know can’t bear to think that they might be wrong about a lot of things.

  80. Everyone knows that person who “eats whatever she wants and never gains weight,” but so few people who aren’t that person actually think through the existence of such folks to its logical conclusion:

    Right! People usually only get as far as “what a lucky bitch” and stop there. Usually aided by Cosmo or some other piece of crap that tells you to think that way.

  81. That’s totally it, Kate! What really baffles me, though, is when people who are naturally very thin *don’t* seem to get that. I can see how someone who is more in-between (say, just thin but not extra thin), and who has some temporary ability to change their body weight by changing their habits, might not get it. But what is up with the very thin people who miss this? I cannot help but wonder what is wrong with their brains!

  82. Sniper and The Rotund: I’m the shortest one in my family (not counting the children and the half-japanese branch). By inches. And yes, I’m biologically related to them.

    Anyone got a spare 3 inches for me?

    About the TV chef thing… It ALMOST makes me want to go out and try to be a fat-positive TV chef. Almost, and then I come to my senses. I guess I’ll just stick to the side project that my mother suggests I call “The Busy Couple’s Guide to Dining In” (quick –or at least uncomplicated– recipes that are designed for TWO people instead of 4-6-8.)

  83. @ Heidi:

    I was thinking of the wonderful “You are driving up my insurance costs!!!!11″ (Il)logic on my way home today. It couldn’t have ANYTHING at all to do with any of the companies involved in the U.S. healthcare system having us over a barrel and trying to keep a high profit low cost margin going. No,there is NO CONNECTION. It must be teh fattiez!

    *sigh*

  84. i should put all my thoughts into one comment, geez. Another way to say this is that I think it takes an extraordinary inability to sympathize with other human beings to have the experience of living in a very thin body, which cannot appreciably gain or lose weight by any change in diet, and then to take that experience and look down on everyone fatter than you (which is almost everyone).

  85. [i]Everyone knows that person who “eats whatever she wants and never gains weight,” but so few people who aren’t that person actually think through the existence of such folks to its logical conclusion.[/i]

    10 years ago, my conclusion used to be, “she must be a closet bulimic.” I would try hard to take the high road and pity her illness rather than envy her figure. I figured those TRULY naturally thin types who could eat tons of anything were a rare freak of nature — and for them I was too consumed by envy-bordering-on-resentment to consider that I might be one of those equally rare naturally fat freaks. *I*, of course, was just a weak-willed undisciplined failure.

    Hi y’all, I’m new here, and I must say I could happily get used to this whole “sanity” schtick. This blog is wonderful!

  86. Well, I don’t believe that anyone *chooses* to be IGNORANT, but I feel that we all have a choice in whether or not we let ourselves STAY there.

    Stupidity is entirely rectifiable, provided one can safely extract one’s head from one’s ass.

  87. I keep sitting here and thinking about this instead of reading my Science Papers! So, another comment:

    I find that most people are bizarrely comfortable looking at very-thin people as these weird exceptions to whom the Natural Laws Of Calories-In-Calories-Out Magical Physics just do not apply… but those rules still must apply to everyone else. We’re seen as these magically lucky people with amazing bodies that can do what no one else’s bodies can do.

    It makes no sense. Seriously, the world is NOT divided into Lazy People Who Get Fat, Virtuous People Who Work Hard So They Don’t Get Fat, and Magical Fairies Who Can’t Get Fat. This is just the only way I suppose you can maintain that it REALLY IS c-i/c-o.

    *flies away on fairy wings*

  88. SugarLeigh – I’m aware of HP’s fat stereotypes, but I didn’t connect them to trolls because I don’t think of trolls as fat, but merely big. But, considering Crabbe and Goyle, who were big and who I’m positive were compared to trolls (or something similar) – and then there’s Hagrid, and then the other giants – I guess in Rowling’s universe big=stupid. Which makes me sad because I would’ve liked to handout Ts to internet trolls. Oh well.

    On the other hand, Molly Weasley was always described as plump (and Malfoy tried to make fun of her for this at one point) and at least a few other of the Weasleys were described as stout too. And Hagrid’s girlfriend (what’s her name?) wasn’t stupid. So while there are the fat stereotypes in there, at least some of it is attributable to Harry’s point of view and whether he was inclined to positively or negatively view the person. So that helps me still enjoy the books without being too bothered by, for instance, the Dursleys (who are the worst of the lot in terms of fat stereotypes, imo) at any rate.

  89. Seriously, the world is NOT divided into Lazy People Who Get Fat, Virtuous People Who Work Hard So They Don’t Get Fat, and Magical Fairies Who Can’t Get Fat.

    Heh. And yet my entire family believes exactly that, and some of them are Magical Fairies.

  90. this info about alton brown makes my heart sink. he’s pretty awesome, since i love food AND science. oh well. i will choose to not watch his show, but instead of walking, skip him and watch bobby flay later, who i really can’t stand. that is until i find out he made some ridiculous comment too. and yes, paula deen catches all kinds of flak. i’ve seen many, many eyerolls at her, especially when it comes to butter. but as she said, i’m not your nurse, i’m your cook. blah to self-righteous foodies. but don’t worry, i won’t add any weight to your ass via your wallet.

  91. Lynne, that’s so true. I’m just naturally all around little, and even though I eat whatever I want, people compliment me on being ‘good’ because I don’t eat as much as some people. Hello, being small means I get full quicker! Sometimes I wish I were a linebacker because I’d get to enjoy that much more food ;)

  92. I’ve duked it out a few times with people over Paula Deen and her trying to destroy the universe with her ri-goddamned-diculously awesome food. I’ve been to the Lady and Sons in Savannah and it was like having a day pass in Heaven.

    As for Alton Brown, I couldn’t stand his turdy ass before he decided to let portions of his fanbase know he couldn’t stand them and their fat (but he was a-okay with the money that flew out of their wallets). The second he appears on Food Network, the channel is changed immediately.

  93. Paula Deen’s smile is exactly the same in every single damn picture I have ever seen of her so she kind of vaguely creeps me out but her food is amazing and I am glad she exists.

    I think, on a certain level, there exists the stereotype of the plump Southern grandmother and that stereotype is hugely comforting to a lot of people. She fits that role and so while they give her flak, she still gets her own show.

  94. I personally never saw Hagrid as ‘stupid’ anyway. Naive… in many ways…. but not stupid.

    And think of the Malfoys.. the ‘pretty’ people thin and rich and undeniably villians.

    Molly Weasly is my hero! She did kick Bellatrix’s arse after all ::evil grin::

  95. Sandra Lee? Is she the 30% Homemade (or whatever the heck it is) person?

    I will say as little as possible about her since I cannot ever possibly say anything charitable about her.

    Paula Deen also creeps me out a little, but she genuinely LOVES food. And I don’t just say that because she isn’t thin. I mean, my 135-lb brother (at 6′) genuinely LOVES food, and loves to cook, and eats like a horse.

    Honestly, though, I trust bigger TV chefs more. Even though how much you eat doesn’t necessarily affect your weight, I seem to have gotten the societal bias that assumes that larger people love food more. Maybe I should work on that.

    Or maybe Sandra Lee is just annoying, period.

  96. I guess I’ll just stick to the side project that my mother suggests I call “The Busy Couple’s Guide to Dining In” (quick –or at least uncomplicated– recipes that are designed for TWO people instead of 4-6-8.)

    Bald Soprano….PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE??? And maybe a realistically-sized two-portion meal? PLEASE? Sign me up…now, now, now.

  97. On the other hand, Molly Weasley was always described as plump (and Malfoy tried to make fun of her for this at one point) and at least a few other of the Weasleys were described as stout too. And Hagrid’s girlfriend (what’s her name?) wasn’t stupid. So while there are the fat stereotypes in there, at least some of it is attributable to Harry’s point of view and whether he was inclined to positively or negatively view the person. So that helps me still enjoy the books without being too bothered by, for instance, the Dursleys (who are the worst of the lot in terms of fat stereotypes, imo) at any rate.

    And Rowling does get points for having spoken out against the ridiculous standards of the beauty industry on more than one occasion, always having been provoked by some comment on weight. And it’s a well known fact that Hagrid is her favourite character – so I think it’s kind of weird to bring him up as a representation of negative stereotypes (especially because he’s, hands down, a good guy), and I don’t really feel like the HP trolls count a continuation of Fat Stereotypes. More like a representation of Troll Stereotypes. I mean, they were basically fantasy trolls, probably closest resembling a Tolkien interpretation. That’s like saying Rowling has a problem with short people because the Goblins were regularly grouchy.

    That being said – the Dursleys, and especially Dudley, had a lot of great big Fat stereotyping. Especially FAT=OVERINDULGENCE+CONSUMERISM!!!11!one, and I wasn’t very impressed with the representation of Slughorn, which seemed to fall along the same lines.

    But I honestly think, in the case of Rowling (and I have no way of knowing this, of course), these representations are rooted in basic misunderstanding, and I could have easily made the same mistakes, you know, a year and half ago. Which doesn’t make it RIGHT, of course. I just feel a bit more forgiving of people who have no way of knowing that what every health class and every doctor and every magazine EVER has told them, was, in fact, completely based in fiction. And I feel like she’s smart enough that if she were to find the time to read up on it, she would get it, but just hasn’t, because…well…why when you don’t think there’s anything to question?

    Because I have always been a critical thinker, and I was, for being SO concerned with my “health”, relatively body-positive (for other people, not myself, natch) BEFORE discovering HAES.

    And for being this great critical thinker who totally came to conclusions like Gay People Aren’t, In Fact, Evil At All and Bush Sucks and Having A Vagina Seems To Have More Influence Over The Way People View Me Than Seems Reasonable – essentially on my own, just by observing the world and paying attention, and despite coming from a crazy Mormon family who regularly watched Bill O’Reilly – I still didn’t even come close to questioning that weight was something people could, to a major extent, control.

    And I probably never would have if Kate had never posted anything to that extent on Shakes, and if I didn’t happen to be lurking there ’cause a friend linked me.

    And I felt guilty about that. And still kind of do. That I never questioned it. But the thing is, I don’t think it’s possible to question everything, and especially not all at once. And especially if no one’s ever given you a reason to (no matter how obvious it seems in retrospect.

    So I guess what I’m saying here is that there are really bad fat stereotypes in HP, but I don’t feel like it was malicious, and the things Rowling has done in the real world (speaking out, donating, atc) seem to indicate that she’s pretty forward-thinking, and so while it might lower my opinion of the work, it doesn’t lower my opinion of her. She comes from the same fucked up society that we all do, and I doubt unlearning it all is any easier for her.

  98. “Anthony Bourdain is a fat hater? Is this true? Does anyone know? Please say it isn’t so!”

    What’s more, He and Dan Savage are the same person. It’s seriously uncanny how much they look & sound alike. Too ugly, insecure, bitchy peas in a pod.

  99. And especially if no one’s ever given you a reason to (no matter how obvious it seems in retrospect.

    Closing parentheses are for losers.

    the things Rowling has done in the real world (speaking out, donating, atc)

    And et cetera is a stupid phrase to abbreviate. That was obviously my shorthand for Atcuubmasd, which is an ancient word that means “and more”, and which I totally didn’t just make up by randomly typing on my keyboard.

  100. “The marvelous Jennifer Paterson of Two Fat Ladies died of lung cancer in 1999. She was also 71, which is not what I’d call a ripe old age, but hardly a teenager either.

    “How anybody got “She died of fat” out of that, I have no idea, except on the general principle that if there were no smokers or fat people, no one would ever die. (I don’t know whether Jennifer smoked, not that it matters; smokers don’t “deserve” their conditions, either.)”

    I loved “The Two Fat Ladies”. Jennifer was a heavy smoker, and smoked right up until the end. After the diagnosis of terminal lung cancer, when someone tried to admonish her for smoking, she’d laugh and say “I’m already dying. What else could happen?”

  101. My mother was that person who could eat anything she wanted and not gain weight — she was a buxom 96 pounds when she got married (she’s 4’11”, so this is not completely unreasonable). She then had three kids in three years and got on prednisone permanently for lung disease. Early ’60s, best they could do drugwise at the time, and now she can’t get off the stuff. Heredity was also in there: Her mom and aunts are all fat.

    So she is that rare thin person who became fat, and has been fat for decades. And she hates it, hates it, hates it, and blames herself for being too weak to be thin again. She has lived the disconnect between how much you eat and how much you weigh, and still can’t get over the idea that her body would be different if she tried hard enough.

    She doesn’t bug me about my weight and I don’t upset her with too much size acceptance stuff. But she hates her body, I don’t hate mine, and we’re both fat, so what have all her decades of body hatred accomplished? Makes me sad. And my dad likes her just fine at any size; they’ll have been married 50 years in January.

    (Why no, I can’t stay off this thread!)

  102. Bridey, that’s so sad, and it must be hard to watch. My grandfather was one of those naturally very thin people who became permanently fat because of long-term prednisone treatment, in his case for heart disease. I don’t know how he felt about the weight gain. Family discussion of it did seem to consider it more “acceptable” than fatness that isn’t medication-related, though. Because when it’s the result of a medication, at least they can’t HELP it, right? *headdesk*

  103. “Wow, I eat pate and cream and sugar in moderation…”
    is almost right, I think. Bourdain, at least, doesn’t do it in moderation, so it’s more like, “Wow, I eat gigantic portions of these foods all the time, so fatties must be eating dumptruck loads”.

    I think there is a lot of truth in that, and it’s often true on the flipside too: “I eat ‘bad’ foods in moderation, yet I’m fat, therefore I must really be overeating/binging.”

  104. And for being this great critical thinker who totally came to conclusions like Gay People Aren’t, In Fact, Evil At All and Bush Sucks and Having A Vagina Seems To Have More Influence Over The Way People View Me Than Seems Reasonable – essentially on my own, just by observing the world and paying attention, and despite coming from a crazy Mormon family who regularly watched Bill O’Reilly – I still didn’t even come close to questioning that weight was something people could, to a major extent, control.

    Time-Machine, I was very much the same (with a crazy Irish Catholic family who watch Fox News rather than a Mormon one). So while finding out people are anti-fat makes me think less of them, it doesn’t have anywhere near the same effect as finding out they’re homophobic, racist, ableist, etc.. I feel like those are prejudices that everybody in this society has had a chance to be educated about, and if you refuse to accept that education it’s a choice on your part to hate in spite of all reason, whereas there are so, so many people who genuinely have no idea that being fat isn’t unhealthy, or that people don’t have a choice over what size they are.

    Which, don’t get me wrong, gives them absolutely no fucking right to consider another person’s body public property, or use anyone’s size as an excuse to treat them as less than human. But I can’t think badly of everyone who’s bought into the “fat=unhealthy” bullshit because it is all we hear every day and as you say, you can’t question everything all the time. I mean, I wish people would exercise some critical thinking on the issue (as on many other issues) and I’m immediately going to think a lot better of anyone who does. But the absence of an initial understanding that fat=/= unhealthy is not usually a red flag about a person in the way that other prejudices are.

    (When a person continues to insist that they are RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT and OMG TEH FAT even after they’ve had every opportunity to find out differently, though — that’s when the flags come in. And the shovels, for hitting them in the metaphorical face.)

  105. Alton Brown is pretty sexist, too. I actually had to stop watching Good Eats because I got so tired of it.

    Paula Deen freaks me out because she anthropomorphizes her food. “Does he want whipped cream? Or does he want ice cream? He wants both!” I admire her dedication to butter, however.

  106. goodbyemyboy said: “I eat ‘bad’ foods in moderation, yet I’m fat, therefore I must really be overeating/binging.”
    O.M.G. YES. It took me until I was 30+ years old to realize that I do not, in fact, binge eat. I used to think that because I could eat 3 or 4 pieces of pizza, I was bingeing. Mostly it was exactly as you stated – because I was fat, I must OBVIOUSLY be over/binge eating. Not until I read accounts of true binge eaters did I realize how “normal” my eating habits were.

    And back to Alton Brown – I LOVE his nutritional anthropologist and the other food scientist – the woman with really short hair. Too bad he’s such a poopy head. I am SO sick of people who think that it’s okay for thin people to eat certain (or any!) foods, yet fat people can’t. I know it’s been said a million times here, but jesus, every time I think about it, I get so fucking angry.

  107. Alton Brown is pretty sexist, too. I actually had to stop watching Good Eats because I got so tired of it.

    You know, I’ve only seen his show a couple of times and it was somewhat entertaining and he seemed kind of cute and nerdy, but somehow he pinged my douchemeter at the same time. I’m not totally sure why but . . . after this thread I’m not going to feel bad about it.

  108. Well, I’m not surprised at Gordon Ramsay or Anthony Bourdain, but Alton Brown? Wow, that was saddening. *Flicks off Good Eats* Anyways, please tell me that Mario Batali isn’t a fat hater or I might just cry. :)

  109. I’ve never actually watched Paula Deen, but I get occasional petitions in my email to boycott her because of her shilling for Smithfield which is apparently a company that is one of the worst in terms of employee fairness.

    I, too am heartbroken at Alton Brown’s fat hatred :(

  110. Bridey’s story wrt her mom made me think of my own mom, (who frankly might be a reason to make my own blog just to post the whole thing) She was always thin, and used to give me nine kinds of hell about being fat. (you know, just like my dad’s entire family for pete’s sake) but she’s gained weight from all the drugs she’s on now, because her freakin’ heart stopped about a year and a half ago. And she cannot quit talking about how she’s so fat now. The woman was dead for like 12 and a half minutes, and has a pacemaker, but somehow the only thing she can focus on is having gained 40 pounds? Seriously? Argh!

    Oh, and I’m in on the Paula Deen love. She’s just so completely un-self-conscious. She’s obviously not trying to seem virtuous, or slick, or marketable, she’s just on screen, being Paula. And I love that. I get the same vibe from Mario Batali, at least on Molto Mario. Just a relaxed red haired man in silly shoes telling travel stories about Italy, and cooking beautiful food. More cooking shows should be like that.

  111. “I eat ‘bad’ foods in moderation, yet I’m fat, therefore I must really be overeating/binging.”

    Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I don’t know how many times I have to tell myself, no, eating two cupcakes is not a binge. A sandwich on two pieces of bread? Also not a binge. There are a whole shitload of things that are not a binge but because i am teh fat I had myself convinced that I had an eating disorder.

  112. There are a whole shitload of things that are not a binge but because i am teh fat I had myself convinced that I had an eating disorder.

    This is what I was referring to earlier. Yes, sometimes fat people “overeat”. Thin people do too! Actually, my skinny brothers always ate 10X what I ate, but nobody cared unless they finished something off before everyone got a helping.

    I wonder if there are many thin women out there who think they have binge-eating disorder because sometimes they have a huuuuuuuuge bowl of ice-cream or a whole individual pizza. Probably.

  113. “I eat ‘bad’ foods in moderation, yet I’m fat, therefore I must really be overeating/binging.”

    I second the thousand times yes. Piece of pie once in a blue moon? Overeating! And what kills me even now, is I never even considered how much I was beating myself up internally for stuff like that until discovering this place. Heck I don’t eat breakfast, I eat a peanut butter sandwich for lunch, and I have a regular dinner thing for dinner… like ravioli with garlic bread or a boneless chicken breast with rice or stuff like that. When I step back and look at it, I think that’s really not very much at all… yet add a sweet or two or a snack and BAM ooo you’ve been BAD and it’s no wonder you’re Fatty McFat!

    And the compulsive dieters would say “OMG give up that FATTY Peanut Butter RIGHT NOW!” but I ain’t gunna. My mom was on Atkins when I was in Jr. High, and we had no bread in the house at all… my lunches of the time consisted of baloney wrapped around hunks of cheese and a hunk of fruit. I love peanut butter sandwiches… so every day I have one heheh

  114. Hello, being small means I get full quicker!

    Is it really true that ‘smaller’ people get full quicker? There are always plenty of anecdotes of tiny people who eat large amounts.

    It seems to me that this type of statement translates to mean that all those giant fat people have to eat enormously. Stereotyping follows accordingly.

    Haven’t we already discussed and realised that peoples nutritional needs are different regardless of size?

  115. Sarahau, I think *some* thin people get full quicker, maybe because when you have a small frame it might make sense for your organs to be slightly smaller, and it sounds like It is one of those people. I know other thin people who seem to have bottomless stomachs. :) Fwiw, I seem to have a pretty small stomach that fills up pretty fast, but then I get hungry again very quickly, so I still end up eating a LOT. I just have to graze to get the food my body asks for.

    Anyway, yup, I think people have really different food and nutritional requirements, no matter what size they are. That’s probably the most important point!

  116. It seems to me that this type of statement translates to mean that all those giant fat people have to eat enormously.

    I think that was about short vs. tall? Which … may or may not make sense. Probably everyone’s different, as always.

    As a child I was SO one of those thin people who thought that fat people must eat truckloads because I was already shoveling down food like crazy. I mean I think I once had ice cream ten times in one day. No, seriously. And three times was not uncommon. However I decided not to LET myself STAY that way and grew up. It’s as simple as that. ;)

    By now I really don’t understand the whole cin/cout concept anymore. It doesn’t make the tiniest bit of sense if your body just won’t gain weight no matter what. Pregnancy has done its thing, but other than that? Pfft. I’d have to binge every single day for the rest of my life to get fat – OR go on a few diets! LOL.

  117. I think it’s interesting that you thought of fat people that way as a kid, by the way. I think I was just a super self-absorbed kid, because it never occurred to be to project my experience onto others. Instead I spent my time mostly hating my own body without paying much attention to other people. I mean, I knew that I got picked on, and the fat kids got picked on, and the awkward kids and nerdy kids got picked on… but I mostly thought of those things as equivalent and equally unfair and didn’t think about it otherwise. Until a friend told me (in tears because she had just been teased) that she had lost 20 lbs. and that that was SUCH a big achievement, it hadn’t even occurred to me that kids my age in jr. high were even dieting. Ha!

    Yeah, thin privilege central right here. :( I was the most clueless adolescent that ever existed, I think. At least my initial reaction was just horror that my fellow classmates were trying to lose weight while they were growing. And confusion because I still so desperately wanted to grow.

  118. Hasn’t there been recent research showing that fat people experience hunger in a different way than thin people? Anecdotally I work with a lot of thin people who “forget” to eat lunch, which blows my mind because no matter what I had for breakfast (I try to get protein in the morning) I’ve got a horrible gnawing hunger by 11…

  119. HeatherRadish, I’m not sure that’s a fat/thin thing, really. I’m pretty fat, and have a major problem with forgetting to eat. Which is double bad, since I’m also prediabetic, and prone to serious blood sugar crashes. I have to carry a Glucerna shake in my purse just in case I’m about to pas out because I got distracted and forgot to eat lunch.

    Though I’m sure there are assholes who would assume I’m full of shit on that, since obvy, I can only be OMG teh Fatz!! by constantly shoveling down crappy food. Oh, sorry, ranting. I’m cranky today. Anyway, my point was, obviously, you experience hunger differently than your coworkers, which is totally valid, and probably an indication of how your body is processing food differently than theirs, etc. But I’m not convinced it has anything to do with body size.

  120. I agree, emmy. It sounds like I experience hunger in a similar way to HeatherRadish, which would anecdatally (hee new word?) go along with what you’re saying.

  121. Okay, just to address my comment on Hagrid: He’s a good guy, no doubt, but he is often outrageously thick – case in point assigning dangerous animals to study in class and leaving Harry, Ron, and Hermione to care for his giant brother. I haven’t read Philosopher’s Stone in a while but have seen the movie recently, and in that he kept blurting out things to the trio he shouldn’t have (since the 1st two movies were faithful I’m sure it took that from the book).

    I’m not saying Rowling maliciously portrayed him as stupid – just dangerously naive, which is toeing the big=stupid line, IMO.

    Of course, I’m aware that as far as fat (and looks in general) goes people will be described in a manner that reflects Harry’s feelings toward them, which is why Mrs. Weasley is plump and Dudley is a killer whale. I still find some of the stereotypes a bit over the top, especially Crabbe and Goyle, with whom Rowling is clearly playing into the big dumb bully cliche.

    I don’t dislike Rowling, though. Overrall I enjoyed the series (except #6, curse it), and I do like her as a person. If she’s not quite clear on fat acceptance, she has at least some insight into fat issues (I really appreciated that essay she wrote a couple years ago), and I have a feeling she’d convert quicker than Bourdain.

  122. Concerning HP, I never thought of Rowling as a fat hater per se, and as a person I don’t know much about her so she might well be a sweet and fabulous human being, but as a writer a lot of the stuff she did with the books annoyed the bejeebies out of me. I’m not about boycotting her, she didn’t bust my brain in two the way the Bourdain thing did. And I actually didn’t notice how much her books were about pretty much just skinny people until A) I got involved with the Fatosphere and B) someone pointed it out. So yeah. But once I did get it pointed out, it was one more thing to make me shake my head. I guess my expectations were just plain too high, so that’s maybe more my bad than hers. I just think she took the lazy route for several things… like for example, not telling me what the hell happened to my favorite character after it was all over (Luna Lovegood of course).

  123. Sarahau –

    I apologize if it came across that way. By small I meant mostly short, small frame more than thin. In my case, seemingly that translates into a smaller appetite. I didn’t mean to suggest that this is the case for all short and/or thin people – just that noticing how people think that if I don’t finish something it’s because of virtue rather than just being full, which is another example of the false morality people bring to food. And while it’s important to point out that fat people don’t necessarily eat more than thin people, it seems that it’s also true that some people naturally need to eat more than others for a variety of reasons, and that’s ok, too.

  124. Lynne, reading your posting about when you were a kid…it seems to me that you weren’t being clueless, you were just being a kid. Kids are self-absorbed because that’s where their universe starts, and it takes years and maturity and experience to see beyond that. Acquiring all that is what we call growing up :).

  125. Or, what Lynne said. You know, I’m also a grazer and I just this very minute realized that I’ve always thought that was somehow ‘wrong,’ because, you know, there’s an iron law (in my family at least) that says you have to have three meals at the exact same time every day and only light snacks in between. WTF?

    I keep learning so much from this blog and am sorry if my comment came across the wrong way.

  126. @SugarLeigh…

    According to interviews after the book was out, this is what happened to Luna

    She became the equivalent to a wizard naturalist, traveling the world and discovering many new species of animals, which she became quite famous for. She married Rolf Scamander, grandson of Newt Scamander who wrote the book ‘Fantastical Beasts and Where to Find Them’. She had twin boys named Lorcan and Lysander. Also, Harry and Ginny named their daughter Lily Luna to honor her.

  127. People are surprised that Bourdain mouths off against fat people?? Really? Is there any group of people anywhere that he *doesn’t* insult? Now that *would* be surprising. I kind of like him anyway, he’s an amusing misanthropist. Not that I’d want to spend any social time with him, but I like his work.

  128. I think it takes an extraordinary inability to sympathize with other human beings to have the experience of living in a very thin body, which cannot appreciably gain or lose weight by any change in diet, and then to take that experience and look down on everyone fatter than you (which is almost everyone).

    Well, they can hardly be blamed, when they’re told at every turn that the ONLY REASON people are fat is because they eat WAY too much, duh! A thin person who has an overactive metabolism would hear this and think “Jesus Christ, they must be eating the equivalent of Pluto every day to get that fat,” if they base it on their own bodily experience.

    My spouse was amazed to discover that I really eat, literally, like a bird (i.e., that I wasn’t just doing it while we were dating). In restaurants I frequently need a doggie bag for stuff other people scarf down without any trouble. I regularly have dinner with a couple of average-weight friends who usually eat twice as much as I do. Yet I’ve always been fat. For me, at least, it’s not about overeating — since I gave up dieting in 2004, I eat normally most of the time. My body just does different stuff with what I give it than other peoples’ bodies do.

  129. I still find some of the stereotypes a bit over the top, especially Crabbe and Goyle, with whom Rowling is clearly playing into the big dumb bully cliche.

    Oh, so true on the Crabbe and Goyle. *sigh* Look! We’re Tricking You With Cake! LOL!

    *double sigh*

  130. “that I really eat, literally, like a bird”

    This particular idiom always amuses me, cuz I’ve read a bunch of places that birds actually eat a lot relative to their size (like 25-50% of their body weight daily!), so the popular usage to mean eats very little is totally backwards ;)

  131. Try reading a highly educational FAT BOOK. Embracing Your Big Fat Ass, by Laura Banks and Janette Barber.

    Being larger is not necessarily a bad thing. I am larger, but healthy, why? Because I have better self-acceptance than most skinny people. I have learned how to love my body and laugh at the world’s view, and to me that is healthy and empowering. Without a good mental attitude, I will not be able to change other important areas of my life very successfully.

  132. I (5’3) routinely out-eat my 6’1 fiance. Both of us are about the same amount not-thin, although his is all in one place (his gut) and mine is sort of a more general distribution. We’re both thin enough to have a shit-ton of privilege, though.

    He’s sort of a grazer; I, however, am very firmly a three- (two, really) square-meals person. It makes for interesting meals. Sometimes I have to remind him that a bag of Combos and a cherry Coke does not a meal make. (Well, at least not in combination with what else he was likely to have eaten that day.)

    He used to be scrawny; like 6′ tall, 130 lbs. He never did eat more than he eats now, so he’s sort of the weird mythical tall skinny guy who doesn’t eat much.

    Vive la difference!

  133. I frequently forget to eat – I hear you on that one, emmy.

    The other night, my husband and I devoured a large, thin crust pizze – it’s like tomato sauce and cheese on the crust of a saltine. I don’t know, I love it. And despite knowing that a) we don’t eat like that every night and b) even if we did it wouldn’t make us bad people, I still feel a tinge of guilt as though we are gorging ourselves beyond all belief. Dude, it’s the equivalent of 3 slice of pizza that are STILL thin crusted! My head is so wrong on this. *laugh*

  134. I’m kind of glad this conversation veered in the direction of thin people’s perceptions… Perhaps someone can offer advice.

    My husband is the mythical skinny guy; however, he did spend a few years before I knew him working from home eating hot pockets all day, eating out every meal (very excessively), and being extremely sedentary. This constant excessive eating and no activity whatsoever actually resulted in a fairly substantial weight gain (considering he’s a beanpole by nature). He moved, got a new job, started mild exercise and eating something besides ribs and chocolate cake (not that there’s anything wrong with that, IMO), and managed to become mythical skinny boy again. I can’t fathom how much he did eat before because he out eats me by 2x or 3x. Yet I’m the chunky one…

    As you’d probably guess by now, his opinion of fat people is that they all must live like he did when he was heavy (and not really even THAT heavy!) and that they could lose it if they wanted to like he did. *sigh*

    I try to show him that I’m the half marathoner that eats less, but I think he imagines me sneaking food or eating a ton at work. What to do? I’d thought of doing an “Ask Aunt Fattie” with this question.

  135. To all those who were discussing the “bad foods”, bingeing thing: I agree, as well. I’ve always thought of myself as a compulsive overeater, and while I sometimes enjoy the snacky snacks “too much”, I actually do not have the capacity to eat very much at a time. When I had bulimic tendencies, it was never a situation where I would binge and purge; I would usually just eat a regular sized meal and purge, because I thought of what I ate as “bad”, and felt guilty for eating it.

    This lit up a huge light bulb for me to hear this. I don’t think I ever thought twice that I was “obviously” a binger. I mean, duh; I’m FAT! And my dad’s whole family is fat! But I’m still fat because I eat way, way too much!

  136. There are times when I’m wrapped up in things I put off eating too. Take last night. Pop bought a new shredder so we were having a blast shredding old documents. Then I cleaned and hulled strawberries and did a load of laundry. Almost an hour later, Pop says, “hey, you better eat.” A nice small grilled piece of steak and two drumsticks with lemonade. For a “normal” sized person, that’s a good dinner. For a fattie like me, that’s BAAAD and heart attack city. So gluttonous! Whatever.

    I find it amusing that in the good ol’ US of A (I know we have lots of peeps from abroad too) that we take pride in having big things. Big homes, big trucks, big yards. Most people ooh and aah when they hear stories about hunters killing giant hogzillas and other wildlife. So in a nation where for many people, bigger is better, why are we so hostile and derogatory against big human beings? We work, we raise families, we pay taxes, we live our lives like anyone else. Just because we’ve got more meat on our bones doesn’t give everyone else an open invitation to hate us, mock us, and wish we would go away. And if we want to eat a large thin crust pizza or a box of bon-bons or a dozen baby-flavored donuts, GET THE HELL OVER IT. We paid for it, let us eat it dammit!

  137. try to show him that I’m the half marathoner that eats less, but I think he imagines me sneaking food or eating a ton at work. What to do? I’d thought of doing an “Ask Aunt Fattie” with this question.

    Hah! Me also. One problem is that my husband has seen me a lot thinner than I am now thanks to dieting. Of course, it’s all come back, plus 20, but he has this idea that if I just up my exercise a little, the weight will come off and all my health problems will disappear. Unfortunately, PCOS doesn’t just disappear. It’s so damned frustrating.

  138. Aibhe, I couldn’t even read all of that article… But from what I read… seriously, 60-90 minutes at least 5 days a week? Who has that time? Not to mention that the study ALSO had people on a 1200-1500 calorie a day diet… *headdesk*

    atiton: email me if you’re interested in being a recipe-tester. :)

    My husband and I met when I weighed 40 pounds less than I do, but I’m lucky, he’s all about FA. (he’s 9 inches taller than me and weighs the same…and still gets grief from his mother about his weight as well as mine)

  139. Aibhe, I couldn’t even read all of that article… But from what I read… seriously, 60-90 minutes at least 5 days a week? Who has that time? Not to mention that the study ALSO had people on a 1200-1500 calorie a day diet… *headdesk*

    This is the kind of nagging we can look forward to in the future. See? All you have to do is starve and exercise obsessively and you can be thin! It’s as simple as that!

    Does anyone else get this? My family tends to nag me from the point of view that it’s all about my health and that if I loved them I would lose weight because otherwise I WILL DIE and leave them and how selfish is that? Honestly, I often think that if dying gets me away from other people, I’m okay with it.

    Ugh.

  140. OH yes Sniper. I get this. And everyone has seen me get quite thin from doing the above (minus about 400-500 calories a day) and the consensus seems to be that I should be able to keep that up for life. That, and the puking, apparently. *sigh*

  141. OMG. That article.

    “Thirty minutes a day is good for general health, but if you want to lose weight, you need to be doing more, and if you want to sustain weight loss, you need to be doing even more than that.”

    So basically they’ve just ADMITTED that formerly fat people have to do three times as much exercise as naturally thin people to stay the same size, and yet there’s not supposed to be anything wrong with that?????

  142. Re: Parade poll. Here’s the exact quote from my copy of Parade:

    There are so many misconceptions about obese people, but the fact is that we struggle like any other addicts. I don’t think it’s fair to charge us more for things.

    You know, it started out so well up until the comma… *sigh*

    Re: Alton Brown. I used to love his show and then I got turned off around the time he had his heart problems by comments on his (now defunct) blog – he got all up on his high horse about how he had his heart issues because he let himself become a big fat slob (paraphrased), blah blah blah. That combined with the comments about his fat fans came out and I could never quite see him the same way.

  143. … and yet there’s not supposed to be anything wrong with that?????

    Well, no, Tiana. Thin people who exercise for 30 minutes every day are supremely virtuous. Fat people who fail to exercise for 60-90 minutes a day are lazy and don’t care about themselves.

  144. Maybe I’m drawing the wrong comparison, but the article seems to have the same sentiments as those people who think that all homeless people would no longer be that way if they would just get a job. Because, you know, it’s just that easy.

  145. Simply Mac, how dare you compare the terrible plight of the homeless to so-called “discrimination” fat people experience. People should be prejudiced against fat people, because being fat is unhealthy, and a bad example, and if they just stopped stuffing their faces once in a while there would be no energy crisis or world hunger EIR(#IM!J@ES!!!!!

    Ugh. I’m off to walk around a botanical garden for an hour or so. I’ll enjoy it, so it won’t count as exercise.

  146. Try reading a highly educational FAT BOOK. Embracing Your Big Fat Ass, by Laura Banks and Janette Barber.

    Haha, nice spamming, but I have a review copy of that book and if it didn’t suck I would have told people to read it already.

  147. the article seems to have the same sentiments as those people who think that all homeless people would no longer be that way if they would just get a job. Because, you know, it’s just that easy.

    Behold, the magical Paul Campos quote that occasionally has the power to shut fauxgressives up!

  148. Wow, Kate…thanks for the quote! Didn’t know I was so smart :)

    I really need to pick up a copy of that book…I hear such wonderful things about Campos.

  149. Okay, I mean that I need to pick up Campos’ book, and also probably Kolata’s as well. Jeez…sometimes I need to pay attention.

  150. I really need to pick up a copy of that book…

    Act now. It’s out of print. :( (Still available from some Amazon sellers and the like, though.)

    ETA: I also mean Campos. The Kolata book is still in print.

  151. Sniper:

    Thin people who exercise for 30 minutes every day are supremely virtuous. Fat people who fail to exercise for 60-90 minutes a day are lazy and don’t care about themselves.

    In much the same way as thin people who eat are merely hungry and needing sustenance, whereas fat people who dare to eat something other than a lettuce leaf are clearly Ravenous Bugblatter Beasts (from Traal, naturally) with compulsive eating disorders who need to Put Down that Baby-Flavoured Donut.

  152. @Diana – you know, I shouldn’t say this, as a confirmed FA person, but YES! TIME MACHINES WILL FIX THE OBESITY EPIDEMIC. (Maybe not in the way they had in mind, but if this is how we get funding for time machines. . . I’m using it.)

    @Fatadelic – one of the hardest things for me in coming to terms with my body is learning to acknowledge my hunger as authentic. The idea that, no matter what size my body is, when it feels hungry, it is hungry, and I should feed it – that was a huge mountain to scale. I grew up assuming that my hunger wasn’t valid, because how could I be hungry, if I was carrying around all that “extra” weight? Same way I grew up thinking my pain wasn’t valid – as a person with fibro, my comments on how much something hurt were always exaggerations, whininess or being a baby. I am finally starting to believe that what I feel is actually what I feel and not some dark horrible thing masquerading as something else.

  153. Cath the Canberra Cook:
    People are surprised that Bourdain mouths off against fat people?? Really? Is there any group of people anywhere that he *doesn’t* insult?

    *Laughs hysterically*

    Yorke:
    As you’d probably guess by now, his opinion of fat people is that they all must live like he did when he was heavy (and not really even THAT heavy!) and that they could lose it if they wanted to like he did. *sigh*

    I try to show him that I’m the half marathoner that eats less, but I think he imagines me sneaking food or eating a ton at work. What to do? I’d thought of doing an “Ask Aunt Fattie” with this question.

    Have you asked him he thinks *you* live like he did when he was “heavy”? If he says yes, ask him why he thinks that. Is he not paying attention, or does he really think you’re lying about what you’re eating? Not paying attention is forgivable. Thinking you’re a liar might be harder to deal with.

  154. Huh. This reminds me of two gentlemen of my acquaintance. Both are tallish (5’10” and 6’1″) and remarkably thin (~135#), and both seem to be at their stable weight. However, one eats like a horse — three large meals a day plus snacks, with close (intuitive) nutritional balancing to avoid metabolic crashes. The other scarcely eats at all, sometimes needing a reminder that he should eat once per day, and when he does it’s often crap, and it also doesn’t seem to affect him much.

    They do have in common, though, a tremendous fondness for sugary things, especially fruit and chocolate. In fact, I find that a lot of people who eat intuitively end up eating a lot of fruit. Which, of course, makes perfect sense from an evolutionary perspective. Chocolate is a bit odder, and warrants some investigation IMO.

    One side of my family tends toward fat, the other towards thin, so my genetic predisposition was a tossup. I seem to have split it pretty fairly down the middle, though, and am comfortably at my set point without too much effort. I hadn’t realized how stable people’s weight was, though, until I met my current boyfriend, who is extremely thin no matter how much he eats. I’d previously had the “normal privilege” blinders on, in that I ate an average amount and stayed an average weight (5’7″, 140#) so I never had to think about the stability thing at all.

  155. mccn:

    I am finally starting to believe that what I feel is actually what I feel and not some dark horrible thing masquerading as something else.

    Yeah, I get what you are saying there, especially with the acknowledgment of hunger.

    For me, though, this also manifested in denial of my severe depression for something like 25 years because my problems, feelings and pain were clearly nothing compared to other people’s problems, feelings and pain – and I should just stop dramatising and whining and get on with it. Sigh, what we put ourselves through.

    It’s one reason I am so passionate about HAES; the philosophy encourages us to learn to read our mental, physical and emotional needs and – here’s the kicker – actually take care of them!

  156. TIME MACHINES WILL FIX THE OBESITY EPIDEMIC.

    WILL NOT. ‘Cause I dun wanna.

    *vworps away*

  157. Yeah Time-Machine, you’d better not. Just imagine all the energy that would be made available to worry about real problems… Scary.

  158. seriously, 60-90 minutes at least 5 days a week? Who has that time? Not to mention that the study ALSO had people on a 1200-1500 calorie a day diet… *headdesk*

    This is essentially where the people on the National Weight Control Registry are at. For life. One of the researchers says the only ones who succeed at keeping their weight off long-term essentially make it their job – work for Weight Watchers or as an Exercise Trainer or whatnot, so that some of the time and energy put into staying thin makes them some money, because, let’s face it, staying thin for a naturally fat person is essentially a full time job on its own…

    I lucked out – hubby was a natural thin (he’s put on some weight over the years – went through a period of stress and lost contact with his hunger), but he was never much for me dieting. I’ve known other naturally thin people who reject the idea that people get fat by overeating as well; I think it often has something to do with the fact that they don’t buy into the whole “you get what you deserve” philosophy of life but rather recognize that a lot of bad stuff strikes at random.

    My mom’s side tends toward the tall and not-so-fat, while dad’s side tends toward the seriously hefty, which maybe explains why I was a diet skeptic even before I started having serious issues with my own weight. I have one thin friend who doesn’t put fat people down in general but is kind of hard on her one fat brother – I think she excuses most fat people on the theory that they’re fat through genetics, while she thinks her brother’s doing something wrong.

    IMHO, if he did anything to cause his own fatness, it was dieting, which he was doing by the time he hit twenty (I think the military got him on it because he certainly wasn’t fat back then). But he was also the one solid kid in a family of skinnies even as a youngin.

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