Comments on: Quick Hit: Parade Poll on Fatties and Airline Seats http://kateharding.net/2008/07/01/quick-hit-parade-poll-on-fatties-and-airline-seats/ Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:44:42 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Cute Bruiser http://kateharding.net/2008/07/01/quick-hit-parade-poll-on-fatties-and-airline-seats/#comment-61047 Cute Bruiser Tue, 08 Jul 2008 06:58:36 +0000 http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1539#comment-61047 I was pointing out common assumptions and pointing out that you can't always judge a book by its cover. You don't know how someone came to require the use of a wheelchair just by looking at them. We wouldn't expect them to pay more for the extra seats on the bus they require. However, if a fat person needs an extra seat on a plane, it's suggested that they should pay more and this is acceptable because the common assumption is that we CHOOSE to be this way. And that's just plain wrong. I was pointing out common assumptions and pointing out that you can’t always judge a book by its cover. You don’t know how someone came to require the use of a wheelchair just by looking at them. We wouldn’t expect them to pay more for the extra seats on the bus they require.

However, if a fat person needs an extra seat on a plane, it’s suggested that they should pay more and this is acceptable because the common assumption is that we CHOOSE to be this way.

And that’s just plain wrong.

]]> By: fillyjonk http://kateharding.net/2008/07/01/quick-hit-parade-poll-on-fatties-and-airline-seats/#comment-60936 fillyjonk Mon, 07 Jul 2008 13:40:12 +0000 http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1539#comment-60936 Cute Bruiser, I see where you're going, but be wary of making assumptions about other groups to show that we shouldn't make assumptions about fat people. You end up digging yourself in pretty quickly, I've found. Cute Bruiser, I see where you’re going, but be wary of making assumptions about other groups to show that we shouldn’t make assumptions about fat people. You end up digging yourself in pretty quickly, I’ve found.

]]> By: Cute Bruiser http://kateharding.net/2008/07/01/quick-hit-parade-poll-on-fatties-and-airline-seats/#comment-60935 Cute Bruiser Mon, 07 Jul 2008 13:28:15 +0000 http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1539#comment-60935 This is just plain offensive. Why don't we charge handicap people for 3-4 bus fares because their wheelchairs take up 3-4 seats? Oh, that's right. I forgot. They didn't choose to be that way, but fat people did. (Never mind the fact that some people in wheelchairs are that way because of reckless driving or other hurtful stunts.) In summary, this is pretty stupid. This is just plain offensive. Why don’t we charge handicap people for 3-4 bus fares because their wheelchairs take up 3-4 seats? Oh, that’s right. I forgot. They didn’t choose to be that way, but fat people did. (Never mind the fact that some people in wheelchairs are that way because of reckless driving or other hurtful stunts.)

In summary, this is pretty stupid.

]]> By: Sara http://kateharding.net/2008/07/01/quick-hit-parade-poll-on-fatties-and-airline-seats/#comment-60882 Sara Sat, 05 Jul 2008 00:53:38 +0000 http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1539#comment-60882 I don' t think this has been mentioned - certainly not in the article anyway - but the more weight an aeroplane carries, the more fuel it burns. So the costs involved for the airline increase with the heavier load the plane carries. My dad is a pilot, thats why I know this. Maybe thats why you have to pay for excess baggage? Eitherway, the thought of being weighed to see how much I have to pay for my ticket is enough to make me NEVER fly again. Let alone purchasing two tickets because of my weight. I have flown all my life (as i mentioned, my father is a pilot so we have always had cheap fares) and i am always conscious not to impede in the space of the person sitting next to me. But as I get older and larger I am feeling increasingly claustrophic during flights. And its not just the small seat, it's the lack of leg room and the lack of head space when the person infront reclines their chair. Regardless of the excess cost to airlines, I believe that targeting people because of their weight is an easy way for an already fatphobic society to blame us for all their insecurites and make money out of us at the same time. Travel used to seem like such an adventure. Now it feels like I'm a travelling freak show, from the minute i get on the plane to when i get off. My last holiday in Japan left me feeling like a giant. might just stay at home and reduce my carbon footprint. I don’ t think this has been mentioned – certainly not in the article anyway – but the more weight an aeroplane carries, the more fuel it burns. So the costs involved for the airline increase with the heavier load the plane carries. My dad is a pilot, thats why I know this. Maybe thats why you have to pay for excess baggage?

Eitherway, the thought of being weighed to see how much I have to pay for my ticket is enough to make me NEVER fly again. Let alone purchasing two tickets because of my weight.

I have flown all my life (as i mentioned, my father is a pilot so we have always had cheap fares) and i am always conscious not to impede in the space of the person sitting next to me. But as I get older and larger I am feeling increasingly claustrophic during flights. And its not just the small seat, it’s the lack of leg room and the lack of head space when the person infront reclines their chair.

Regardless of the excess cost to airlines, I believe that targeting people because of their weight is an easy way for an already fatphobic society to blame us for all their insecurites and make money out of us at the same time.

Travel used to seem like such an adventure. Now it feels like I’m a travelling freak show, from the minute i get on the plane to when i get off. My last holiday in Japan left me feeling like a giant.

might just stay at home and reduce my carbon footprint.

]]> By: KT http://kateharding.net/2008/07/01/quick-hit-parade-poll-on-fatties-and-airline-seats/#comment-60755 KT Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:09:41 +0000 http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1539#comment-60755 Some rambling thoughts... 1—The TONE of the debate makes it pretty clear that this isn't just about comfort/fairness. If the issue was framed as “HOW do we deal w/ the fact that airline seats are getting smaller & people are getting bigger (not just fatter--also taller/more muscular/etc) so no one loses it & smacks someone in the face for the knee bump that is the last straw on a 10 hour flight?” instead of “bad fatties should pay more to fly!” then I wouldn’t see it as nearly as problematic. 2—Airplane seats just suck. Given fuel prices it might not be feasible for airlines to make seats larger, which is the common sense/ideal solution. I don't think weight should mean someone has to pay double (& it's revealing of pro-2-seaters' intent that this applies to fat people & not tall, elbow-y people) but when I'm next to someone who, for any reason, doesn't fit in their seat, though I don't feel it's their fault it sucks that because I’m fairly small & can squeeze myself into the remaining space, I've spent quite a few flights hugging the window, in the middle with my knees squeezed together & elbows tucked in or hanging into the aisle getting banged by the beverage cart. (Why are flight attendants always pissed at YOU when that happens?) Though as I write this & think about it…it’s probably not like I’m any more uncomfortable than the bigger person. Perhaps the suckiness is evenly distributed? 3--The idea that there's a sexist aspect (hips=bad, elbows=no biggie?) here makes a lot of sense. I remember discussion about charging for tickets based on weight & it was always about FAT people—never mentioning that men would automatically pay more. Funny how that idea died out but this one hangs on. 4—Honestly, I also think there’s an issue of entitlement. It rarely seems to me that fat people feel like they “deserve” the space they need, but I’ve had a lot of experiences sitting next to guys (sometimes tall ones, but almost as often not) who seem to think that as a small woman my space is his to take b/c he "needs" it more than I do. (& sometimes this is true, but a sorry-I-elbowed-your-boob-6-times-in-3-minutes acknowledgment would be nice. & I don’t care how big you are, ONE of those armrests is MINE.) Anyway…sorry this got so long, especially since I doubt I’ve said anything new…a complicated topic, no doubt. Some rambling thoughts…
1—The TONE of the debate makes it pretty clear that this isn’t just about comfort/fairness. If the issue was framed as “HOW do we deal w/ the fact that airline seats are getting smaller & people are getting bigger (not just fatter–also taller/more muscular/etc) so no one loses it & smacks someone in the face for the knee bump that is the last straw on a 10 hour flight?” instead of “bad fatties should pay more to fly!” then I wouldn’t see it as nearly as problematic.
2—Airplane seats just suck. Given fuel prices it might not be feasible for airlines to make seats larger, which is the common sense/ideal solution. I don’t think weight should mean someone has to pay double (& it’s revealing of pro-2-seaters’ intent that this applies to fat people & not tall, elbow-y people) but when I’m next to someone who, for any reason, doesn’t fit in their seat, though I don’t feel it’s their fault it sucks that because I’m fairly small & can squeeze myself into the remaining space, I’ve spent quite a few flights hugging the window, in the middle with my knees squeezed together & elbows tucked in or hanging into the aisle getting banged by the beverage cart. (Why are flight attendants always pissed at YOU when that happens?) Though as I write this & think about it…it’s probably not like I’m any more uncomfortable than the bigger person. Perhaps the suckiness is evenly distributed?
3–The idea that there’s a sexist aspect (hips=bad, elbows=no biggie?) here makes a lot of sense. I remember discussion about charging for tickets based on weight & it was always about FAT people—never mentioning that men would automatically pay more. Funny how that idea died out but this one hangs on.
4—Honestly, I also think there’s an issue of entitlement. It rarely seems to me that fat people feel like they “deserve” the space they need, but I’ve had a lot of experiences sitting next to guys (sometimes tall ones, but almost as often not) who seem to think that as a small woman my space is his to take b/c he “needs” it more than I do. (& sometimes this is true, but a sorry-I-elbowed-your-boob-6-times-in-3-minutes acknowledgment would be nice. & I don’t care how big you are, ONE of those armrests is MINE.)

Anyway…sorry this got so long, especially since I doubt I’ve said anything new…a complicated topic, no doubt.

]]> By: Jackie http://kateharding.net/2008/07/01/quick-hit-parade-poll-on-fatties-and-airline-seats/#comment-60749 Jackie Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:55:27 +0000 http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1539#comment-60749 I was just thinking, if a fat person buying one seat is such a problem for (presumably) thin people, maybe the thin person should buy the second seat for them. Since it's them who have the problem. I was just thinking, if a fat person buying one seat is such a problem for (presumably) thin people, maybe the thin person should buy the second seat for them. Since it’s them who have the problem.

]]> By: Liza http://kateharding.net/2008/07/01/quick-hit-parade-poll-on-fatties-and-airline-seats/#comment-60676 Liza Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:59:07 +0000 http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1539#comment-60676 Regina, I'd like to refer you <a href="http://profoundsarcasm.blogspot.com/2008/03/fat-people-are-allowed-to-travel-too.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. It's about exactly that: fat people on public transportation and the "comfort" or "space" issue. (yes, I'm shamelessly sending you to my own blog...it was also discussed on <a href="http://kateharding.net/2008/03/03/miss-conduct-tackles-fatties-on-the-subway-so-to-speak/" rel="nofollow">this site</a>, but hey, I'm shameless) Regina, I’d like to refer you here.

It’s about exactly that: fat people on public transportation and the “comfort” or “space” issue.

(yes, I’m shamelessly sending you to my own blog…it was also discussed on this site, but hey, I’m shameless)

]]> By: Fae http://kateharding.net/2008/07/01/quick-hit-parade-poll-on-fatties-and-airline-seats/#comment-60659 Fae Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:42:16 +0000 http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1539#comment-60659 How about having a couple of extra-large seats per plane?? How about having a couple of extra-large seats per plane??

]]> By: Regina T http://kateharding.net/2008/07/01/quick-hit-parade-poll-on-fatties-and-airline-seats/#comment-60607 Regina T Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:26:14 +0000 http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1539#comment-60607 What about people's "personal space"? Most, if not all, people have an invisible personal space surrounding us. We step back if someone invades it. We adjust our stance when approaching someone else to talk. It's there. It's real. When our space is invaded, we retreat. The only exception used to be just elevators and subways. But the adopted standard for coping with the closeness factor is A) stare straight ahead watching the numbers go up and down. And B) Just deal with it cuz it's a short ride. The airlines USED to maintain that personal space in the beginning with normal sized seats and wide aisles. Now it's just a matter of dollars and asses. Im mean really...who can stare straight ahead for an entire flight these days? If they really cared about a passengers comfort they would make more realistically adjustable seats, allowing for the variety of sizes people come in to be accommodated. What about people’s “personal space”? Most, if not all, people have an invisible personal space surrounding us. We step back if someone invades it. We adjust our stance when approaching someone else to talk. It’s there. It’s real. When our space is invaded, we retreat. The only exception used to be just elevators and subways. But the adopted standard for coping with the closeness factor is A) stare straight ahead watching the numbers go up and down. And B) Just deal with it cuz it’s a short ride.

The airlines USED to maintain that personal space in the beginning with normal sized seats and wide aisles. Now it’s just a matter of dollars and asses. Im mean really…who can stare straight ahead for an entire flight these days? If they really cared about a passengers comfort they would make more realistically adjustable seats, allowing for the variety of sizes people come in to be accommodated.

]]> By: fillyjonk http://kateharding.net/2008/07/01/quick-hit-parade-poll-on-fatties-and-airline-seats/#comment-60601 fillyjonk Thu, 03 Jul 2008 04:19:09 +0000 http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1539#comment-60601 Wow, they shut down the comments? They must have gotten pretty fucking bad. You're right; we should call for Parade to apologize for not doing it earlier. Only part of me is like "whatever, it's <i>Parade Magazine</i>, they're such a joke." Still, it's the public internet and (see the next post here) moderators have a responsibility to keep things from going off the rails. Especially if they're operating under the name of a quasi-legitimate publication. I'll look up contact info tomorrow, unless a night owl/West Coaster gets a chance to do it first. Wow, they shut down the comments? They must have gotten pretty fucking bad.

You’re right; we should call for Parade to apologize for not doing it earlier. Only part of me is like “whatever, it’s Parade Magazine, they’re such a joke.” Still, it’s the public internet and (see the next post here) moderators have a responsibility to keep things from going off the rails. Especially if they’re operating under the name of a quasi-legitimate publication.

I’ll look up contact info tomorrow, unless a night owl/West Coaster gets a chance to do it first.

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