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	<title>Comments on: Non-headless non-fatty</title>
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		<title>By: LilahMorgan</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/05/22/non-headless-non-fatty/#comment-55924</link>
		<dc:creator>LilahMorgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 19:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1431#comment-55924</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The strength you can get from either choosing to hide in a specific way (fat, burqa) &lt;/i&gt;

And, of course, not that you don&#039;t know this, but just to make totally explicit - there&#039;s also a huge range of hijab.  Most women who wear it are not wearing a burqa.  And interestingly, in the generation  of Muslim women now in their early to late 20s, at least in the U.S. and among the upper and middle classes of Egypt (the populations I&#039;m marginally familiar with), many women are choosing to wear hijab despite not only a lack of familial pressure but actual familial opposition to it.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.welovehijab&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;We Love Hijab&lt;/a&gt; is an Islamic fashion blog that also includes many profiles of young women describing their decision to wear hijab, and there&#039;s definitely some overlap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The strength you can get from either choosing to hide in a specific way (fat, burqa) </i></p>
<p>And, of course, not that you don&#8217;t know this, but just to make totally explicit &#8211; there&#8217;s also a huge range of hijab.  Most women who wear it are not wearing a burqa.  And interestingly, in the generation  of Muslim women now in their early to late 20s, at least in the U.S. and among the upper and middle classes of Egypt (the populations I&#8217;m marginally familiar with), many women are choosing to wear hijab despite not only a lack of familial pressure but actual familial opposition to it.  <a href="http://www.welovehijab" rel="nofollow">We Love Hijab</a> is an Islamic fashion blog that also includes many profiles of young women describing their decision to wear hijab, and there&#8217;s definitely some overlap.</p>
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		<title>By: sarawr</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/05/22/non-headless-non-fatty/#comment-55911</link>
		<dc:creator>sarawr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 04:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1431#comment-55911</guid>
		<description>Re:  hijab, I actually have kind of complicated feelings and conflicting knowledge about this, because I have friends who wear hijab -- a couple who do so voluntarily and one who does so involuntarily.  Not that she&#039;s forced despite a desperate desire not to wear hijab, but she&#039;s never known anything else and there would be pretty severe familial and spiritual consequences for her if she ever did decide she just wanted to wear a T-shirt.  That said... ooh, &lt;i&gt;great&lt;/i&gt; question!  And here we go with my (kind of incoherent) answer):

I think that the parallel with fat as insulator comes into play exactly as you said:  sometimes, when you have a healthy, comfortable relationship with fat -- i.e., when you get to where you kind of even like it -- it&#039;s a very similar power source to that of hijab.  It teaches you about hidden beauty and things you keep to yourself, if that makes sense; in a society where skinny is the only way to be beautiful, it&#039;s amazing and empowering to realize that you have all this gorgeousness that not many people see.  It&#039;s also, of course, incredibly frustrating, angry-making, and saddening at times, and I can&#039;t help but think that women in hijab might feel the same way.  Still, there is this awesome feeling that &lt;i&gt;you know yourself&lt;/i&gt; better than you would if you were just another skinny girl or just another girl in a halter top, you know?  When you&#039;re fat or when you&#039;re veiled, you spend a lot of time analyzing yourself and finding your comfort/discomfort zones and sort of... sort of thinking about physicality, and eventually you get to where you know a secret, and the secret is that you&#039;re amazingly pretty or amazingly strong or amazingly flexible or maybe you have great skin right there on your ribcage &lt;i&gt;and nobody knows it unless you want them to&lt;/i&gt;.  I think it&#039;s kind of cool, whether it comes from a burqa or 50 extra pounds.

Where the parallel falls apart is in the enforcement.  Nobody will ever, ever threaten you with a beating or an eternity in hell to make you fat.  Many, many women will be threatened with these things and worse if they don&#039;t wear hijab, and that&#039;s where the practice becomes disempowering, sickening, and heartless.  The strength you can get from either choosing to hide in a specific way (fat, burqa) or just accepting the way you are (tubby, veiled) only comes when it is a choice -- and I&#039;m not saying you can choose to be skinny if you&#039;re fat, because duh, no way -- but you can choose to accept it.  You can dress it up, dress it down, take it out to yoga, and treat it to ice cream -- and if you&#039;re being forced under a veil even though you hate it, even though it makes you miserable, even though it&#039;s just a part of the silencing process, then those benefits don&#039;t apply.  It&#039;s a tough line to walk, and it&#039;s an issue that quite honestly I don&#039;t think &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; Western woman of the 21st century really truly gets, but these are the thoughts I have.  And can I say again that I &lt;i&gt;loved&lt;/i&gt; this question, A Sarah?  You kick ass.

(Also, please to be excusing mah typos.  I am arthritic and exhausted.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:  hijab, I actually have kind of complicated feelings and conflicting knowledge about this, because I have friends who wear hijab &#8212; a couple who do so voluntarily and one who does so involuntarily.  Not that she&#8217;s forced despite a desperate desire not to wear hijab, but she&#8217;s never known anything else and there would be pretty severe familial and spiritual consequences for her if she ever did decide she just wanted to wear a T-shirt.  That said&#8230; ooh, <i>great</i> question!  And here we go with my (kind of incoherent) answer):</p>
<p>I think that the parallel with fat as insulator comes into play exactly as you said:  sometimes, when you have a healthy, comfortable relationship with fat &#8212; i.e., when you get to where you kind of even like it &#8212; it&#8217;s a very similar power source to that of hijab.  It teaches you about hidden beauty and things you keep to yourself, if that makes sense; in a society where skinny is the only way to be beautiful, it&#8217;s amazing and empowering to realize that you have all this gorgeousness that not many people see.  It&#8217;s also, of course, incredibly frustrating, angry-making, and saddening at times, and I can&#8217;t help but think that women in hijab might feel the same way.  Still, there is this awesome feeling that <i>you know yourself</i> better than you would if you were just another skinny girl or just another girl in a halter top, you know?  When you&#8217;re fat or when you&#8217;re veiled, you spend a lot of time analyzing yourself and finding your comfort/discomfort zones and sort of&#8230; sort of thinking about physicality, and eventually you get to where you know a secret, and the secret is that you&#8217;re amazingly pretty or amazingly strong or amazingly flexible or maybe you have great skin right there on your ribcage <i>and nobody knows it unless you want them to</i>.  I think it&#8217;s kind of cool, whether it comes from a burqa or 50 extra pounds.</p>
<p>Where the parallel falls apart is in the enforcement.  Nobody will ever, ever threaten you with a beating or an eternity in hell to make you fat.  Many, many women will be threatened with these things and worse if they don&#8217;t wear hijab, and that&#8217;s where the practice becomes disempowering, sickening, and heartless.  The strength you can get from either choosing to hide in a specific way (fat, burqa) or just accepting the way you are (tubby, veiled) only comes when it is a choice &#8212; and I&#8217;m not saying you can choose to be skinny if you&#8217;re fat, because duh, no way &#8212; but you can choose to accept it.  You can dress it up, dress it down, take it out to yoga, and treat it to ice cream &#8212; and if you&#8217;re being forced under a veil even though you hate it, even though it makes you miserable, even though it&#8217;s just a part of the silencing process, then those benefits don&#8217;t apply.  It&#8217;s a tough line to walk, and it&#8217;s an issue that quite honestly I don&#8217;t think <i>any</i> Western woman of the 21st century really truly gets, but these are the thoughts I have.  And can I say again that I <i>loved</i> this question, A Sarah?  You kick ass.</p>
<p>(Also, please to be excusing mah typos.  I am arthritic and exhausted.)</p>
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		<title>By: A Sarah</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/05/22/non-headless-non-fatty/#comment-55906</link>
		<dc:creator>A Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 00:11:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1431#comment-55906</guid>
		<description>Hey sarawr, can I just say, I think you&#039;re the bee&#039;s knees?  I&#039;ve been within the same 20 pound range since puberty (if you exclude pregnancy); and - this may or may not be a related fact, I suppose - the amount of random male attention I&#039;ve gotten since becoming an adult has more or less held constant.  (It has included some unwanted groping by a stranger as well, unfortunately.  Shudder.  On the other hand there was a time when I was wearing my booty jeans and a random passerby said &quot;Baby got BACK!&quot; and for some strange reason it came across as unproblematically complementary.  Anyway.)  This is sort of random, but...  some of what you said reminds me of some women&#039;s reasons for wearing the hijab.  I just wonder what, if any, parallels or differences you think might be there?  I&#039;m not trying to bait you; I&#039;m really curious.

&quot;Your faith in your therapist is not unjustified! ;)&quot;

:)  He is one heckuva great therapist.  Just to clarify, though, because I think I may have made it sound otherwise: he didn&#039;t actually write the fat-as-protective-layer thing, but rather linked to a website that has a blog written by a bunch of different people, one of whom wrote the protective layer entry.  Thank heaven.  Otherwise I&#039;d have had to give him what-for, LOL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey sarawr, can I just say, I think you&#8217;re the bee&#8217;s knees?  I&#8217;ve been within the same 20 pound range since puberty (if you exclude pregnancy); and &#8211; this may or may not be a related fact, I suppose &#8211; the amount of random male attention I&#8217;ve gotten since becoming an adult has more or less held constant.  (It has included some unwanted groping by a stranger as well, unfortunately.  Shudder.  On the other hand there was a time when I was wearing my booty jeans and a random passerby said &#8220;Baby got BACK!&#8221; and for some strange reason it came across as unproblematically complementary.  Anyway.)  This is sort of random, but&#8230;  some of what you said reminds me of some women&#8217;s reasons for wearing the hijab.  I just wonder what, if any, parallels or differences you think might be there?  I&#8217;m not trying to bait you; I&#8217;m really curious.</p>
<p>&#8220;Your faith in your therapist is not unjustified! ;)&#8221;</p>
<p>:)  He is one heckuva great therapist.  Just to clarify, though, because I think I may have made it sound otherwise: he didn&#8217;t actually write the fat-as-protective-layer thing, but rather linked to a website that has a blog written by a bunch of different people, one of whom wrote the protective layer entry.  Thank heaven.  Otherwise I&#8217;d have had to give him what-for, LOL.</p>
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		<title>By: sarawr</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/05/22/non-headless-non-fatty/#comment-55902</link>
		<dc:creator>sarawr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 22:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1431#comment-55902</guid>
		<description>Er, and the final point that I forgot to type was:  This is all &lt;i&gt;positive&lt;/i&gt; stuff being fat has done for me.  Not negative.  I am still damn sexy, and I still get attention -- just, now, it&#039;s not the center of my world, and it&#039;s not happening every two seconds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Er, and the final point that I forgot to type was:  This is all <i>positive</i> stuff being fat has done for me.  Not negative.  I am still damn sexy, and I still get attention &#8212; just, now, it&#8217;s not the center of my world, and it&#8217;s not happening every two seconds.</p>
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		<title>By: sarawr</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/05/22/non-headless-non-fatty/#comment-55901</link>
		<dc:creator>sarawr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 22:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1431#comment-55901</guid>
		<description>It might not be all bad, A Sarah -- while the &quot;fat as protective layer&quot; thing &lt;i&gt;alone&lt;/i&gt; is a gross oversimplification and/or outright fallacy, there can be some truth to it -- Exhibit A would be, well, me.  I didn&#039;t &lt;i&gt;get&lt;/i&gt; fat to protect myself (I got fat because I had a baby, I might have PCOS, my fibromyalgia raged out of control, and with the arrival of the baby and a new husband I was cooking more and exercising less), but part of why I am consciously choosing to &lt;i&gt;stay&lt;/i&gt; fat is that I kind of like this soft, comforting shell.  I like... well, let me be blunt:  I like not getting all the wolf-whistles, the sexual comments, the gropes.  I like not being expected to spend the entire day clothes shopping with my bitchier friends.  I like the perspective being fat has given me on a lot of things; the idea that it&#039;s okay not to be perfect that has given me the ability, finally, to &lt;i&gt;relax&lt;/i&gt; about my appearance.  (This is qualitatively different from just waving my hands in the air and saying fuck it, by the way -- I&#039;m not saying &quot;being fat gives me an excuse to be a slob;&quot; I&#039;m just saying that it helped me understand what my body is for and that it&#039;s okay if it isn&#039;t perfect at all times.)

So... so, you know.  Mileage varies, but I think for some people fat can kind of be an insulator.  If a therapist approaches that respectfully &lt;i&gt;and doesn&#039;t try to change it&lt;/i&gt;, I think it can be a helpful therapeutic tactic.  Take heart!  Your faith in your therapist is not unjustified!  ;)

*sits back, waits to be flamed*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It might not be all bad, A Sarah &#8212; while the &#8220;fat as protective layer&#8221; thing <i>alone</i> is a gross oversimplification and/or outright fallacy, there can be some truth to it &#8212; Exhibit A would be, well, me.  I didn&#8217;t <i>get</i> fat to protect myself (I got fat because I had a baby, I might have PCOS, my fibromyalgia raged out of control, and with the arrival of the baby and a new husband I was cooking more and exercising less), but part of why I am consciously choosing to <i>stay</i> fat is that I kind of like this soft, comforting shell.  I like&#8230; well, let me be blunt:  I like not getting all the wolf-whistles, the sexual comments, the gropes.  I like not being expected to spend the entire day clothes shopping with my bitchier friends.  I like the perspective being fat has given me on a lot of things; the idea that it&#8217;s okay not to be perfect that has given me the ability, finally, to <i>relax</i> about my appearance.  (This is qualitatively different from just waving my hands in the air and saying fuck it, by the way &#8212; I&#8217;m not saying &#8220;being fat gives me an excuse to be a slob;&#8221; I&#8217;m just saying that it helped me understand what my body is for and that it&#8217;s okay if it isn&#8217;t perfect at all times.)</p>
<p>So&#8230; so, you know.  Mileage varies, but I think for some people fat can kind of be an insulator.  If a therapist approaches that respectfully <i>and doesn&#8217;t try to change it</i>, I think it can be a helpful therapeutic tactic.  Take heart!  Your faith in your therapist is not unjustified!  ;)</p>
<p>*sits back, waits to be flamed*</p>
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		<title>By: emmy</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/05/22/non-headless-non-fatty/#comment-55892</link>
		<dc:creator>emmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 16:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1431#comment-55892</guid>
		<description>Aaaahhh! Thanks for the reminder of why I don&#039;t read comments at Feministing. Jessica is always completely awesome about respecting fatties as people, and calling out the hate speech, but it seems it&#039;s impossible to stem the tide of fat hatred, even on a feminist site where body autonomy is at least nominally respected.

On a lighter note, too bad I couldn&#039;t taste that bowl of 10 grain hot cereal with dried cherries I just ate. I bet it was fucking delicious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaaahhh! Thanks for the reminder of why I don&#8217;t read comments at Feministing. Jessica is always completely awesome about respecting fatties as people, and calling out the hate speech, but it seems it&#8217;s impossible to stem the tide of fat hatred, even on a feminist site where body autonomy is at least nominally respected.</p>
<p>On a lighter note, too bad I couldn&#8217;t taste that bowl of 10 grain hot cereal with dried cherries I just ate. I bet it was fucking delicious.</p>
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		<title>By: AndyJo</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/05/22/non-headless-non-fatty/#comment-55885</link>
		<dc:creator>AndyJo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 12:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1431#comment-55885</guid>
		<description>Agreeing with all y&#039;all, and...  Consider that this is the hapless WSJ.  It was formerly a great newspaper.  Now it is owned by Newscorp -- i.e. Rupert Murdoch.

He&#039;s apparently not living up to the commitments he made when he bought the paper in terms of keeping the quality of the news high.  Staff is leaving.

He also hates Hilary...

So...  this is one case where we really have to say &quot;Consider the Source&quot;.

--Andy--</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreeing with all y&#8217;all, and&#8230;  Consider that this is the hapless WSJ.  It was formerly a great newspaper.  Now it is owned by Newscorp &#8212; i.e. Rupert Murdoch.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s apparently not living up to the commitments he made when he bought the paper in terms of keeping the quality of the news high.  Staff is leaving.</p>
<p>He also hates Hilary&#8230;</p>
<p>So&#8230;  this is one case where we really have to say &#8220;Consider the Source&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8211;Andy&#8211;</p>
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		<title>By: Sniper</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/05/22/non-headless-non-fatty/#comment-55800</link>
		<dc:creator>Sniper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 17:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1431#comment-55800</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Because, you know, being fat is a really good way to get the big bad world to leave you alone and respect your right to make decisions about your life.&lt;/i&gt;

I think most of us got fat just to get attention - nothing says &quot;you like me&quot; like catcalls, thrown food, and diet books as &quot;gifts&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Because, you know, being fat is a really good way to get the big bad world to leave you alone and respect your right to make decisions about your life.</i></p>
<p>I think most of us got fat just to get attention &#8211; nothing says &#8220;you like me&#8221; like catcalls, thrown food, and diet books as &#8220;gifts&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: meowser</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/05/22/non-headless-non-fatty/#comment-55794</link>
		<dc:creator>meowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 17:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1431#comment-55794</guid>
		<description>Bleh, the &quot;fat is a choice&quot; thing, coupled with the old Susie Orbach &quot;obesity&quot; as-tool-to-avoid-men shit that even Susie Orbach doesn&#039;t endorse anymore.  Like body size and libido have jackall to do with each other.  And like &quot;overeating&quot; alone is going to put anything more than maybe 10 or 15 pounds on most people, tops.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bleh, the &#8220;fat is a choice&#8221; thing, coupled with the old Susie Orbach &#8220;obesity&#8221; as-tool-to-avoid-men shit that even Susie Orbach doesn&#8217;t endorse anymore.  Like body size and libido have jackall to do with each other.  And like &#8220;overeating&#8221; alone is going to put anything more than maybe 10 or 15 pounds on most people, tops.</p>
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		<title>By: A Sarah</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/05/22/non-headless-non-fatty/#comment-55782</link>
		<dc:creator>A Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 15:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.wordpress.com/?p=1431#comment-55782</guid>
		<description>Um, okay, well, I just looked further on that website&#039;s blog and there&#039;s an article all about the emotionally-damaged fatties who are fat because the want a &quot;protective layer&quot; between them and the big bad world.  Because, you know, being fat is a really good way to get the big bad world to leave you alone and respect your right to make decisions about your life.

Sigh.

So, um, never mind, maybe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, okay, well, I just looked further on that website&#8217;s blog and there&#8217;s an article all about the emotionally-damaged fatties who are fat because the want a &#8220;protective layer&#8221; between them and the big bad world.  Because, you know, being fat is a really good way to get the big bad world to leave you alone and respect your right to make decisions about your life.</p>
<p>Sigh.</p>
<p>So, um, never mind, maybe.</p>
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