Congrats, Rachel and Mo!

It’s over!

Question for readers who saw it (I haven’t yet): can somebody tell me around what time in the program they came on? [Answered, thanks.] The awesome Petulant recorded it and has offered to YouTube the relevant bits for us, but we don’t want to make the poor thing sit through the entire show. He’s got Torchwoods to rewatch.

Update: All hail Petulant!

Part 1:

Part 2:

372 thoughts on “Congrats, Rachel and Mo!

  1. I’m almost scared to watch it, even though I know they did great, but I will. Big ups to Petulant for offering to YouTube it.

  2. Folks – where are you watching it? I can’t find it on YouTube and the show’s site only has a single segment up, which doesn’t feature Rachel and Monique.

  3. I patiently await the You Tubing, as I forgot to DVR the show and I’m at work anyway.

    So but they did okay? Or, more accurately, the program didn’t edit the bejesus out of everything to make them look eeeeeeeevil? And did anybody punch Meme Roth in the snout?

  4. My guess is that it’ll be on the show’s site sometime after it’s aired on the west coast. In the meantime I too wait for the Youtubeness.

  5. I watched it on TV. Meme Roth needs to get a clue. “Fat is already accepted”? (Extreme paraphrasing there). Rachel and MoPie were awesome (and gorgeous). Having their husbands there was cool too. I have a great partner who even reads this blog and makes baby donut jokes, but I know not everyone does.

  6. That was kick ass. Dr. Ashton kind of pissed me off at times, but at least she admitted that “it’s not black and white”. Rachel and Monique were great.

    Meme Roth can suck it. I suspect she must share some genes with GW Bush, what with the mindless repetition of statements that have little if any grounding in truth.

  7. Oh my god, I’m fucking shaking. Mo and Rachel were great (and GLOWING — my god you guys are beautiful), but what an obnoxious, exploitative setup. Mike acts like he CANNOT BELIEVE that we would want “acceptance,” and then at the end he actually says that he wishes he could look at Mo and Rachel and know that they were unhealthy. And MeMe… you guys did as well as anyone could have, but for her to bust out with that “well, if you talked about THIN being in, there would be an outcry!” was one of the biggest LOADS I’ve ever heard.

    Rachel and Mo, you deserve massive plaudits for putting yourself out there like that. You were both incredibly poised, confident, and on-message, and I hope it was less psychologically brutal for you than I fear it was.

  8. I think a point-by-point rebuttal of Dr. Ashton and Roth is in order – there’s a lot of BS being thrown about there. I mean, don’t eat white foods? Fat acceptance being tied in with feminism is bad? And we’re glorifying fat! WHAT! OMG FEMINISTZ!1`~one!!!

  9. Wow, this was great!! I like how Rachel was trying to set the record straight about the BMI standards being adjusted. (It’s annoying how the hosts blew past that as if she wasn’t an expert on the facts.)

    And both women look fabulous, in addition to sounding fabulous too. LOVED the opening set-up piece with Rachel.

    Thanks for posting this!

  10. Oh, and the whole “what if children see you, like, accepting yourself? What if they think it’s OK to be fat???” That really got me. As Meme had said earlier, what if the NYT headline was replaced with “thin is in”. Well, replace the “fat” in the question above with any other adjective, assholes.

  11. P.S. I wish someone would ask Meme WHY she is an anti-fat activist. What in her background put this bug up her ass?

  12. Pingback: TOTALLY FREAKING AWESOME!! « It’s An Insane World Out There

  13. Fat acceptance being tied in with feminism is bad?

    Fat acceptance SOMEHOW being tied in with feminism! She can’t even CONCEIVE of how they’re REMOTELY related!

  14. Paul- yeah, I was listening to that doctor’s “healthy living tips” and wondering what the populations in countries whose main staple food is white rice would think. I, personally, contribute a butt load of white rice to countries with high starvation levels [you should try it! Great for procrastination at freerice.com (or org, I can't remember)].

  15. I loved doctor giving a list of NEVER!s and then saying, “Well, of course I mean in moderation.”

    “Never do this! Except for sometimes it’s ok!”

  16. Meme Roth…give me a break. What’s wrong with big is beautiful? These women were big…and they were beautiful.

    GJ guys!!!

  17. Right, NEVER drink ANYTHING with calories, because it NEVER has nutritional value (*cough*juice*cough*)… but alcohol in moderation.

  18. “We can’t look at height and weight. We have to look at the body mass index”

    Wow. Fundaments of comprehension are not part of the coursework for a medical degree. What, pray tell, is the BMI {since we’re not looking at height and weight}?

  19. Fillyjonk,
    As soon as that doctor said not to drink anything with calories I spit up all of my Vitamin Water and threw the rest out. I mean it has 50 whole calories, and NO nutritional value, because it’s liquid, obviously. What was I thinking!

  20. Can I just mention really quickly how glad I am that most people in the FA movement are not me?

    I would totally have busted out with cuss words at some point there… I could never have kept my cool like that.

    And my skin wouldn’t have looked half as good.

    Thank goodness for you guys.

  21. wish someone would ask Meme WHY she is an anti-fat activist. What in her background put this bug up her ass?

    I heard her say in another interview that her whole family is “obese”. So I would imagine it’s something to do with that. Based on the story somebody told in another thread about her overturning a table of icecream toppings, I think she is absolutely terrified of getting fat herself (that whole ice cream thing really seemed like: “Oh my God if I even see ice cream I will DEVOUR ALL THE ICE CREAM IN THE WORLD and then I will weigh 400 POUNDS), and she directs that terror outward.

    (I haven’t seen the clip yet, because my work has Youtube blocked. I taped it on my VCR though, and I’ll watch it tonight).

  22. Pingback: Three Cheers for Rachel and Monique! « PhotoPhobic

  23. Well of course fat acceptance is antithetical to feminism! It does nothing to advance the cause of women’s rights, the right to get married and keep your husband by fitting into your wedding dress for your twentieth anniversary.

    Anyway, let me join the chorus of people saying “Great job!” I think both representatives did a wonderful job heading off as much nonsense as was possible.

  24. I don’t know if I’m being paranoid or projecting or whatev, but did you see the good doctor and male host just not believing Rachel and Mo about their exercise and nutrition habits? And wtf is up with the doc invoking the BMI and then saying shit isn’t black and white? And fat acceptance being conflated with fat glorification? And Meme Roth (I, too, would love to know what in her history made her such a zealot)? And the doc invoking the whole “will lead to problems in the future” bs? Way to handle it all with such aplomb and good facts and eloquence, you awesome peeps!

  25. fashionablenerd, that about sums it up. Seriously, thank the powers that be that we have people like Mo and Rachel, who can be calm, rational, intelligent, non-cussing faces for the movement.

    With fucking great skin.

    And Ben, I know, seriously! It’s like she doesn’t even know what the body mass index is.

    “We can’t look at height and weight, we have to look at the BMI. That’s the thing that tells you how fat you are without making reference to height and weight, right?”

  26. Won’t anyone think of the children? and the husbands?

    I almost had to stop watching when Meme spoke up with her stupid “Fat is already accepted and thin is oppressed” crap, but I’m glad I stuck with it. Mo and Rachel were great! Way to represent!

  27. Not only did Rachel and Mo rock the segment, they also _looked_ much happier and healthier than the hostess, the doctor, and Meme. Rachel and Mo have skin that glows with good health and vibrance, and the other three look dehydrated and pasty.

    Also, I would have loved to have heard what the bp, cholesterol, and stress test levels were of the other three.

  28. Thanks so much. It’s 4am here and I have been waiting to see this all day/night. Phew, that meme is one sour faced, ugly spewing peeps. Rachel and Monique were wonderful.

    I guess I will get TEH OMG FATZ! now that I am not sleeping. Better have me some white toast with white rice and sugar for breakfast.

  29. I am at home sick today and what a good day to feel like crap!

    I got to see the show this morning and they were marvelous.
    You guys did a great job!

    There is no way I could have stopped myself from squelching possibly hurting maybe punching out… Meme Roth, that woman needs a reality check.

    And both the hosts and the doctor as well need a good ol chubby hand smack for some of those remarks.

  30. HA! 30 is SUCH an extreme BMI.

    *SNORT*

    MeMe and the doctor are both, because the ground is collapsing beneath their feet, struggling to maintain the high ground by reaching for “consequences in the future” when there is nothing to support them. It’s also easy to conflate the consequences of aging with consequences of fat when looking at people as they age.

    Bah.

    Rachel and Mo, y’all ROCKED IT.

  31. wish someone would ask Meme WHY she is an anti-fat activist. What in her background put this bug up her ass?

    Because she promised Eddie Van Halen that she would never get fat. I only wish I were making that up.

  32. Nice job, ladies! You looked and sounded fantastic. And the self control is truly spectacular.

    I have to admit – I skipped all the parts where the doctor and that other horrible person were talking. I have yet to earn enough Sanity Points (TM) to listen to that kind of ridiculous bullshit without going into a Hulk-like state of rage. I just went right to Rachel and Mo, who rocked.

  33. I agree, great job ladies. I wouldn’t have been able to resist cutting off Meme and the good Dr everytime they opened their mouths, so way to be.


  34. shinobi, on January 28th, 2008 at 5:35 pm Said:

    Wurd FJ.
    If I’d been there I totally would have sat on Meme Roth. She’s right, obesity does kill.

    ROFLMFAO

    Ok, that said what really got me about the doctor was that they both said they had no issues with blood pressure or diabeties and whatnot…and the doctor says that your risks will increase for these things down the road… Well hell…SKINNY people get these diseases too “down the road”…it is called AGING and not taking care of yourself.
    You are at risk for those things just by getting old. The only way to be sure not to get these things is to kill yourself now. Goodnight and Great day in the morning…Glad she isn’t my doctor.

  35. Congrats to Rachel and Mo Pie, you were so gorgeous and collected!

    Good lord, if that was me on that show, I would have been red in the face and stuttering the whole way through! Responding to statements uttered in incredulity, like, “So you actually want acceptance?” would have been beyond me.

    I love how Meme Roth can sit there and say fat is way too acceptable, while any fat person I know can tell you multiple stories of times they were treated horribly, but most thin people I know would have trouble even thinking of one (unless you’re naturally a very thin person who is constantly badgered about having an eating disorder). I wonder if that thought has ever before crossed her mind…probably not, as it’s most likely so full of her self-righteous, stubborn hatefulness.

  36. so the BMI standards were lowered to include more people as fat because of “health consequences.” I don’t even understand that sentence.

  37. I’ve seen Meme Roth worse than this, I do believe she was intimidated! Like any bully, she needs weak targets to succeed.

    I thought it went very well and Monique and Rachel were great. Of course, off the good doctor’s advice I will rethink my dinner of three bags of marshmallows – no white food (-;

  38. OMG! FEMINISM is getting tied into it!

    And then, look, these fat women’s husbands are, like, BEAMING!

    Yeah, feminism has nothing to do with ideals of female beauty. Let’s cut to the men and make sure THEY approve of the fat cows they’re bedding every night.

    Memo to MeMe – anytime an “issue” has a cut-to-the-male approval moment, yeah, feminism is tied into it.

  39. sumac, the idea is that they were seeing health consequences at 25 BMI, so they decided to make that overweight, instead of 27.5. Which is of course flatly absurd. It’s the same thing as the idea that when they started defining “prediabetes” as starting with a fasting blood glucose of 100 instead of 110, it was because having a fasting blood sugar between 100 and 110 was consistently leading to diabetes, rather than because they could sell more pills that way.

  40. D’oh! The second video isn’t working, so I can’t see the rest of the interview >< Ah well. Rachel and Mo Pie were great! They looked adorable, were articulate and collected…you could just see the panic in MeMe’s eyes at being confronted with healthy, happy, attractive fat women.

  41. “What do their husband think? ”

    And they say it isn’t a feminist issue?

    OMG–they are fat! what do their husbands think?

    I’m glad they didn’t actually ask their husbands and just had them smile and wave– because if I were one of their husbands, I would have given that host a piece of my mind.

    I almost croaked when the host said that!

    Do we owe men to be thin so that we aren’t ruining our marriages with our weight? Do we need to look at these two beautiful women who are smart and articulate and say, yeah, you say that baby, but let’s ask what your husband thinks.

    I can only imagine the offensive questions they might have asked the husbands. “So, she weighed less when you met her. . . Do you actually still find her attractive? Do you worry about her health? Do you still have sex?”
    What possible questions did they think would be useful here?

    Fat is a Feminist issue indeed! Here is one Fat Feminist who is shaking her head in disgust at the hosts of the show and those two obesity experts.

  42. Also, I would have loved to have heard what the bp, cholesterol, and stress test levels were of the other three.

    Ohhhh, that would have been nice. Like, let’s subject everyone to nosy inquiries about their medical history, rather than it being something only fat people need to answer.

  43. I laughed out loud when the doctor said not to eat potatoes. Potatoes have gobs of nutritional value! After she said that I couldn’t take anything she said seriously.

    Rachel and Mo were fantastic.

  44. I’d actually have loved to hear what MeMe’s diet and exercise schedule is like. They were about to try to tease that out of Mo and Rachel, so why not her? I bet (and this is not a guess based on her body, but on her persona) that it sounds a lot like the eating disorder Rachel described at the beginning of the show.

  45. Obviously the problem is that us fatties are eating too much white food. :p

    Oh, an occhiblu, is it just me or was Mike treating Rachel and Mo like they were aliens from another planet? I kept hearing him scoffing, and he opened the floor to MeMe more than once by asking her direct, pointed questions. Sigh.

  46. The thought that occurred to me when MeMe busted out the “thin is oppressed” thing… well, a few thoughts, actually. First off, i was reminded of the latest post at The Rotund where she mentions (among other things) the notion of people who cannot abide to Not Trump Someone Else’s Pain.

    And maybe i’m just relatively ignorant of the other side of the fence here… but outside of commercial media, most sites that exist for the express purpose of glorifying Thin are pro-Ana. Should that not upset us?

    Not all thin people have anorexia or bulemia. Not all fat people binge.

    I have a great idea. Let’s take MeMe Roth to the nearest major bookstore and head for the magazine racks. Let’s get one copy each of all the women’s magazines. The ones that tell people they need to be thin to be happy, let’s put those in one pile. The ones that tell people they should be happy with who they are, we’ll put those in another. I’m gonna make a wild stab in the dark and say those two piles are NOT going to be the same size.

  47. Wow. Don’t eat white food because it has no nutritional value at all? Excuse me, but potatoes and bananas (another dreaded White Food!!!!) are the primary sources of potassium most of us get in our diets, and most Americans don’t get enough potassium.

    BMI has nothing to do with height and weight? I thought that was only the way it was calculated.

    Don’t drink your calories (juice, yoghurt smoothies, milk) unless they’re moderate amounts of alcohol? Guess I’d better toss the bottles of OJ and milk I have in my fridge and go get me some Jack Daniels! After all, I want to be healthy.

    Meme needs to spend a week in a fat suit and learn just how put upon and underappreciated thin people really are.

    Monique and Rachel? You guys seriously rocked! I’m a patient woman most of the time, but by the end of that interview I’d have been tempted to pull Meme’s arms off and beat her to death with them…in a loving, figure-accepting way, of course.

  48. Does either file have just Rachel and Monique, or do they include the fatist propaganda too? I’m debating with someone who whined about the “obesity problem in America” in a forum, and I think my head will explode if I watch the fatist part of the show right now.

    Even if I haven’t seen it yet, I’m proud of Rachel and Mo and their courage to speak up. Let’s hope some seeds were planted in the viewers’ minds there. These shows will always try to muddle the message by bringing in anti-obesity “experts”, but at least we had a voice this time around.

  49. I needed this today-

    I’ve suffered anorexia in the past- and those of you who also have know that it never FULLY goes away.

    Today was starting off to be a bad day. The thought of food was making me nauseous. I come here every day, and have for he past month and a half since I discovered the site, for that very reason- to stay sane and grounded!

    PS- Fillyjonk- “Right, NEVER drink ANYTHING with calories, because it NEVER has nutritional value (*cough*juice*cough*)… but alcohol in moderation.”

    I was drinking milk when I watched that part!!

  50. As an ex-Atkins zombie I can say that from an Atkins perspective potatoes are considered PURE EEEEVILLLLLLLL!

    Recently, I was eating a potato and in the back of my head I’m going “Groan, so much starch and carbs!” and finally I was like “Damn it! It’s a potato! It comes from the earth and it’s not bad for you! Stop stressing over the damn potato!!!!”

    This stuff takes a lot of unconditioning, and doctors giving this kind of advice do absolutely nothing to help.

  51. shinobi, on January 28th, 2008 at 5:35 pm Said:

    “If I’d been there I totally would have sat on Meme Roth. She’s right, obesity does kill.”

    Can’t. Stop. Laughing.

    I agree that she seemed intimidated. You all were awesome!

  52. WOW. Let me reiterate everyone else’s comment: Rachel and Monique are beautiful, well spoken and all-round awesome. Thank you for staying on point with all the distractions too!

  53. Yeah the don’t drink your calories thing made me want to slap her.

    Seriously? Here I was thinking I should have a glass of milk and/or juice everyday… NO!! ONLY DRINK WATER! THINK TEH CHILDRENZZZ!!!!

  54. I have to wonder about the people spouting about white rice and white starches and just shake my head. Its been around for AGES! Hello, people have been eating that stuff for a VERY long time. But wait, there were NO FAT PEOPLE in the past right? And the ZOMG OBESIDY CRISIS has JUST gotten underway, right? So what, we’ve only recently discovered manic urges for starchey foods?!?!?? WTF is wrong with people? O.o Do they even listen to what they say from one sentence to the next? *rolls eyes*

    Gah.

  55. I recommend everytone read “The Gospel of Food” by Barry Glassner. Sure, he has an agenda, but some of his research — especially the futility of addressing heart disease with diet (it works for a TINY number of people!) is enlightening.

    Seriously, my mind turns off when people start recommending avoiding a certain kind of food. Yes, I am a fatty, therefore, I MUST eat a pound of pasta.

  56. I laughed out loud when the doctor said not to eat potatoes. Potatoes have gobs of nutritional value! After she said that I couldn’t take anything she said seriously.

    …and I’m like, huh? A doctor, and she can’t tell between foods that have been bleached and processed and what have you, and a vegetable that’s, um, been dug up out of the ground? (They’re actually where most UK people, of all sizes, get most of their vitamin C.)

    Whatever. Monique and Rachel were awesome, anyway.

  57. LOL, Meme Roth looked PWNED. She had that sour “I have a pickle up my posterior” look through the whole thing. Even the MD didn’t seem to be taking her side 100%.

    You can really see where Roth is coming from, with all her prattle about health, when she made the comment (paraphrased) that “people will think big is beautiful” (O NOEZ.) That someone could find a fat person (man or woman) attractive, desirable, fun to be around, etc. seems to put sand in her gears more than anything else.

    Great showing, Rachel and Mo.

  58. Thanks for posting the segment! I’m new-ish to the health at every size philosophy.

    I actually laughed out loud (in my office) when they introduced the doctor. Could they find a skinnier, blonder woman? And I stopped listening to her when she said we have to look at BMI not just height and weight. We have to look at area people, not just width and length!

    Thanks Mo and Rachel. You did a lot of people a lot of good.

  59. I MUST eat a pound of pasta. I was totally shocked when I heard the doctor say “If you’re going to eat a pound of pasta eat a pound of whole grain pasta.” Who eats a pound of pasta?!

    Oh right, the fat fat fatties. She totally caught me, I was going to eat pound of pasta with baby sauce for dinner. But now I’ll make sure it’s whole grain pasta and 100% organic babies.

  60. I can’t believe you were worried, Rachel. You spouted off so many *awesome* facts in such a short time – it wouldn’t have been possible to do any better! I can tell you were nervous (who wouldn’t be) but that didn’t stop you, so – wow. All kinds of awesome. I’m glad they gave you so much time as they did; totally cool.

    Would have liked to hear more from Mo, but I guess we didn’t see the whole thing on youtube (?)

    Vesta – yeah I had to laugh at the 30 BMI being “extreme.” Heh. Extreme, huh? When oh when will they learn to stop putting scare labels down at these lower ends of the spectrum? That just means that they have to come up with *more extreme* labels to put on the millions of people who are higher :D Idiots. I saw Meme the other day saying her BMI is 20 so she’s *not* really skinny. Sorry, but her wedding dress picture begs to differ. She is *very* skinny, and if she gets sick she’s got no reserves. So whatever.

  61. Shinobi, i don’t think i could eat a pound of ANYTHING.

    And you know, of COURSE white rice is just so bad for you. Just ask the Japanese. It’s um. So, like, bad and stuff. Totally not a staple food in many parts of Asia. That are um, stereotypically thinner. OMG LOOK BEHIND YOU IT’S A DISTRACTION *flee*

  62. “But now I’ll make sure it’s whole grain pasta and 100% organic babies.”

    That made me laugh right out. The problem (of many) is that the doctor they found was just a figure-head there to regurgitate all the old stereotypes of fatties; that we’re all the way we are from a lack of self control and massive EATING! (Despite all that, you know, RESEARCH that fatties and thinnies eat pretty much the same!).

    That said I forgot to mention it the first time but just from the bit I could stand to watch (the doctor and this Meme person make me too nuts for words) Mo and Rachel were amazing and I think have quite possibly gotten even a few more smart people thinking and questioning the “known truths” of obesidy.

    Now if only I could remember where I stashed my pound of elbow macaronies for my afternoon snack…

  63. Has anyone besides me ever thought that Meme Roth was the Ann Coulter of the dieting world?

    Lindsay, just because we have the same name doesn’t mean you’re allowed to read my mind. I was totally just about to post something similar with the MeMe/Ann thing. O.o

  64. Did they really need to end a segment about Fat Acceptance with dieting advice? yes, I guess they really did. Because here is Meme Roth, whom we’ve had on the show a number of times. Notice how often the hosts have an issue with what our two wonderful bloggers say. “Oh, fine but let’s ask the doctor” or “So… you want acceptance?” with this incredulous sound in the voice. This show clearly was biased. They at least tried to be fair, but it was soooo hard for them. The only reason it came off at all well is because we had two really, really cool representatives up there who could speak for themselves, despite the handicap of prejudice that they were working under. Way to go, girls!

  65. Lindsay,

    Oh it so totally does…..
    bwaha fear me.

    She totally is though! Think about it, she backs up her claims only with evidence she herself had something to do with, she patronizes (sp) the other women she’s with, AND she’s got a pinched face!

    dopplegangar (sp) for the win.

    I need a spell check. *sad*

  66. Yeah, the ” so you want…acceptance?” thing with the scrinch face and raised eyebrow was amazing. As was WHAT DO THEIR HUSBANDS THINK HUH DID YOU EVER THINK ABOUT THAT?

    Rachel and Mo, you were fabulous and gorgeous and, most importantly, coherent and able to string sentences together in a meaningful fashion. I appreciated the distinct lack of Insane Gleam In Eye you both exhibited, as well as your general rocking-that-party-ness.

  67. I choked on the “So you want… acceptance?”, too.

    No. I *want* substandard medical treatment, I want to be expected to share my height, weight, and cholesterol levels with anyone nosy enough to ask. I really *really* want to have garbage thrown at me for the crime of exercising while fat.

    The idiotic reactions of the hosts were a brilliant reminder of why I never, ever watch Fox news.

    Add one more to the chorus of “Rachel and Mo ROCKED”.
    Poised, intelligent, informed, articulate, and glowing.
    And capable of completing a sentence, which Meme wasn’t. ISTM She kept dribbling off at the end of a phrase as if she herself couldn’t really fathom where she was going with that thought.

  68. why weren’t the two good doctors asked to reveal their weight and height, as well as their cholesterol levels and diabetes family history?

    kudos to Mo and Rachel, job well done.

  69. “We can’t look at height and weight. We have to look at the body mass index”

    I cried laughing.

    I haven’t watched yet, but a DOCTOR said that? HOLY I BOUGHT MY MEDICAL DEGREE ON EBAY BATMAN!!!

  70. Hmm . . . I think a better health tip would have been to say get rid of as much grease from your diet as possible. Not only does my digestive system thank me for eating pasta over, say, MEAT anyday, but pasta is really not the devil. Although I do think more people need to realize what ‘drinking calories’ is. My boyfriend has to make a food journal for a class, and I went through and I told him he needed to write down every soda/other beverage he drinks with more than 50 calories in it. Why he asks, and I say ‘dude, it still has calories. If it’s not water, there’s still STUFF in it. Yes, even ‘vitamin water’ has 150 calories.’ It really did blow my mind to realize guys just usually don’t think about calories and what they’re really eating on a normal basis because they’re not conditioned to obcess about food like women. so, yeah, feminism is tied to fat acceptance.

    And . . . Meme Roth needed to get hit. I’m so proud of Mo/Rachel for not punching her. Every time she questioned needing fat acceptance, Mo/Rachel just should have pointed to her and said ‘because of people like you. who judge us. and don’t accept us a people.’

  71. Great job, you two. I, too, was gritting my teeth through Me!Me!’s bullshit. And BMI not being about height and weight? It’s always and ONLY ever been about height and weight! Wha? Acronymize something and suddenly it sounds smarter, that’s what BMI is about.

    I have to agree: it sucks that the show uses husbands to try to show the validity of fat acceptance. I mean, I’ve got one, too, don’t get me wrong, I think they’re great. But the fatties only count if they can prove they’re loved. AND that probably just means that their husbands are Skeezy FA Dudes (init caps denote irony, y’all!).

    AND it’s all heteronormative to boot, because if you’d have gotten a fat woman up there with a female partner in the audience, um *head explodes*. Okay, that wouldn’t have happened in our world, because that format of show just isn’t equipped to handle subtlety and multiple oppressions. But if you _had_ , then it would be fully used to support the stereotype of fat (hairy) dyke, and played that way. (Being one of those and pretty out about it, I nonetheless get, you know, a little sensitive about it.)

    Gah!

    I don’t know that I could do this kind of work, and I admire those who do it. I’ve done radio interviews that were tough, but not confrontational like this. It’s completely a set-up for conflict. I was approached last week by someone from the Tyra Banks show, they were trying to put together something called “extreme couples”, looking for couples who were very different in height/weight, she said.

    Here’s how the phone interview went:
    How tall/heavy are you? (5’10″, 285, for the record)
    How tall/heavy is your husband? (5’2″, 145)
    Do you consider yourself a feedee (NO! I just like food, and so does he)
    Could you send us some photographs? (not until I check with him that it’s okay)

    I asked him so I could honestly say I asked. But I knew it wouldn’t be okay, and knew I didn’t want to do it that way, anyway. The questions alone pulled the little alarm lever in my brain.

    *ding*ding*ding*ding*ding*ding*ding*

    Feel the door before opening it, and then exit the building with all possible speed!

  72. Here’s a “what about the children” moment for you.

    Imagine you’re a little girl, surrounded by the usual “don’t gain weight, fat is bad” propaganda. You watch this show, and you come away thinking “okay, no white food, don’t drink your calories, then you won’t get yelled at on television for being fat.”

    Then someone offers you a glass of milk.

  73. I like that point, fj. I e-mailed the katesblog address, but I thought I would point it out here that my most recent blog post is on children and food. :)

  74. EXXXTREEEEEME!

    (Goes very well with OBEEEEEEESE!)

    And then we put it on a pay site. Oh, wait, it’s the Internet, so I’m sure it’s already been done.

    Yeah, as my sweetie said, I don’t want to be known for being extreme. I want to be known for my well-planned and ground-breaking genetic experiments. I said, I know, dear. And just because I’m a spotlight ho doesn’t mean I don’t know that you’re not.

    Anyway, when you’re lying down and supported by the bed and naked, everyone’s about the same height. Doesn’t feel extreme at all. Except for the part about how many people is “everyone”. Hey, a forty-fattie puppy pile!

    EXXXTREEEEEEME!

  75. Freaking amazing. Rachel and Mo are the definition of poise in those clips, and their sense of ease and calm only make Meme look like even more of a nutjob. I’m sure fucking glad we have spokespeople like that, because I would’ve spent half the segment calling “bullshit!”. Yay Mo and Rachel!

  76. I liked the part where the doctor said that if you are morbidly obese, you are at risk of health problems down the road, even if you have perfect cholesterol and a good diabetes screen and good blood pressure. So basically, you are unhealthy, even if you are healthy. WTF

    You could see the male host’s head wanting to explode. These women are fat…AND happy? And MARRIED? And they want ACCEPTANCE? Too much…cannot compute…

  77. I laughed myself senseless when one of them (Meme I think) turned around and said ‘what if the fat children find out about this and think it’s ok to be teh fatz’??

    …and when the ‘Doctor’ said that BMI has nothing to do with height or weight (nearly snorted my yoghurt)….

    …and just every time they opened their mouths…

    Seriously though, our camp was well represented :-) Nice work!!

  78. Great job! The whole thing was terribly terribly rushed. I don’t know why the producers would bring four people on a panel that they only had ten minutes to interview. But wev. For the time slot available, Rachel & Monique were fabulous.

  79. And I stopped listening to her when she said we have to look at BMI not just height and weight. We have to look at area people, not just width and length!

    BWAHAHAHAHA!!! I know right? That totally made my mouth drop open. I was all “WTF?”

    Also, just so you know, the video on their site has the wrong description next to it. It says

    He’s had a 30 year Hollywood career — but he’s not done yet. Broadway hit Chicago’s John Schneider reveals his life-long dream.

    Which made me giggle. I was like, “I didn’t see Jonathan Kent with Mo and Rachel!

    So you know, you guys were beyond awesome. Obviously the most reasonable people on that stage. Everyone else was flailing and you were just calm and “Oh yeah? I’m totally smarter than you!”

    Made. Of. Win.

  80. Milk is actually pretty unhealthy. It is after all, breast milk from a cow, designed to make baby cows grow to be hundreds of pounds. it really should be eaten in moderation if at all.

  81. Oh, an occhiblu, is it just me or was Mike treating Rachel and Mo like they were aliens from another planet? I kept hearing him scoffing, and he opened the floor to MeMe more than once by asking her direct, pointed questions. Sigh.

    He made the lovely comment, “They say they’re healthy.” I don’t think he consciously meant it as a pointed statement, but it certainly came across as if he didn’t really believe them.

    And yeah, bit of a “What interesting specimens!” vibe to the whole thing from him.

  82. Holy shit, MKL — and cows also eat GRASS and grow to be hundreds of pounds! Guess I should avoid vegetables too. And grains, don’t they eat grains?

    Because gosh, wouldn’t want to weigh hundreds of pounds.

  83. Well, duh – anyone who weighs over 200 pounds IS a cow, of course! Because that’s, like, HUGE.

    Let’s make that over 150 pounds, because that’s already 1½ hundredS.

  84. Actually, I thought his “You want… acceptance?” was basically code for “I totally did not prepare for this segment and can’t think of anything to say.” Douchery. I was not impressed.

  85. I know, I know this is not the point, but damned if both Rachel and Monique were not gorgeous in this clip. They all but glowed with health and were smart, calm and collected. Wanted to hug them for putting up with it and not doing what I and it looks like many of the other commenters might have done, and demonstrate why fat is frequently stronger than skinny. (I’m thinking a brisk, back-handed slapping, since the doctor and hosts were not listening to reason.)

  86. Pingback: The Wallflower Report » Blog Archive » Morning Sickness

  87. I love how the same people who work themselves up into an absolute panic about the Obesity Epidemic (booga booga booga) and how much fatter people are and how much better things were in The Old Days when people Worked Hard in the Fields and didn’t sit on the couch with their baby donuts are invariably the same people who are convinced that some large portion of the food people eat in those Old Days is OMG making us fat.

    Seriously, read a book written prior to 1950 – the people in it are certainly not (a) counting calories, (b) cutting out carbs, (c) obsessively avoiding non-whole grains, (d) surviving on processed energy bars and “nutritional supplements, or (e) refusing to drink things with calories. Sheesh. Choose a meme and stick with it.

    Similarly, btw, the people in non-Western countries that are so often touted as being obesity free (presumably by people who mostly haven’t spent time in them, although some populations clearly are less prone to obesity than others) are not exactly subsisting on a diet of lean proteins, brown rice, and organic vegetables. Go figure.

  88. Rachel and Mo were undeniably the smartest and hottest people on that stage! As for the doctor, um, the 80′s called; they want their stereotypical yuppie costume back.

  89. I don’t see what purpose is served by diagnosing the pretty, skinny blonde women as unhealthy. It might feel good to get a crack in on “them”, but it’s really the other side of the “Ugh, I can tell the fattie is unhealthy just by looking at her fat face!!” coin.

  90. “Mooooommm, can I have a beer?”

    “What are you talking about honey, you’re only five! Beer isn’t for children.”

    “But this doctor lady on TV said anything white and anything with calories in it is bad and is going to make you really faaaaaat. Milk is white and has calories in it, right?”

    “Yes, but — ”

    “And she said alcohol in modermammation was better for you than juice or milk.”

    “She meant for adults, honey, and besides –”

    “But she didn’t SAY that, Mom. She didn’t say anything about adults. She said white things with calories were bad, and I’m never drinking milk ever again or that soy junk either! I want a BEEEEER! You can’t make me FAAAAT, Mom!”

    Rachel and Mo, you ruled. So hard. M*m* was her usual pile of stupid. And that “doctor”? Um, BMI is SOLELY about height and weight, it’s actually a shorthand for it. No white foods, ever? No beverages with calories, ever, except that’s OK to have 3 or 4 martinis with lunch because alcohol is totally Teh Healthee? If she actually follows that diet, she’s probably not only a whole lot of crabby all day every day, but she’s woefully deficient in potassium, calcium, and other nutrients as well. (And a pound of whole-wheat pasta has fewer calories than a pound of white pasta? Um, no, doc, it actually doesn’t at all.) I hope she doesn’t actually see patients anymore. (shudder)

  91. You guys should check out Juliet’s mention of obesity on her blog The last two paragraphs are where it’s at:

    Boys were my motivation. I wanted a boyfriend and I wasn’t about to let anything stand in my way! I started swimming and dieting and lost the weight really quick and got the boyfriend, too.

    Right.

  92. k73, this is not our first Betty Crocker bake-off with MeMe. Trust me, it’s not a diagnosis-at-first-sight thing. The woman’s ideas about food are genuinely disordered.

  93. “Bigmoves, I wonder if they’ll have any het couples where the dude is 250 and the woman is 110. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE EXTREEEEEME.”

    They already have that. It’s called “According to Jim, King of Queens, The Flinstones, The Honeymooners, etc.”

    Rachel & Mo – amazing jobs. You two were articulate and impressively well spoken in the face of such hatred and idiocy. Meme and the idiotic doctor made me have a flames on the side of my face moment.

    The whole white foods are bad thing is just crazy. What about yummy awesome turnips? They’re high in vitamin C, potassium, fiber and lots of other good stuff that make me feel wonderful. Oh wait, I forgot that I’m fat and not supposed to know about foods like that.

    *inhales baby donuts*

  94. Pingback: The Radical Notion of Loving Your Body «

  95. k73, I don’t think that’s what anyone was trying to do, and it’s unfair for you to come in here and accuse people of it when it’s simply not true. MeMe likely has disordered eating because, upon doing *research*, one can easily discover her horror of certain kinds of foods, and near worshipfulness of fruits and veggies. Anyone that fixated on food is setting themselves up to be disordered.

    Also, I have a stepmother that comes from a fat family, and her being skinny is partly due to genetics (her father was skinny) and partly the disordered horror of being treated the way she saw her sisters treated for being fat. Not everyone is the same, but MeMe’s constant references to her Fat Family is enough to make one raise an eyebrow. It’s obvious she’s thought about it a lot, which tends to imply a bit of obsession.

    Of course, she could just eat moderately like everyone else, not exercise obsessively, not be disordered at all, and be a perfectly healthy slim. And that would be wonderful! But then why, oh why, does she hate fat people so much?

    One word: fear. Why else do people stigmatize groups? Fat people are killing children, don’t you see? I very much think that Ms. Roth believes that very point. Fat people kill children. Then, shouldn’t we kill the fat people first, and protect the poor innocent children?

    That’s why people like her are so scary. They’re just one step or one generation away from brutalizing others to assuage their own fears.

    I know I’m being extreme, but I’m doing so to prove a point. There’s a reason we don’t like MeMe, and it’s not because we’re jealous, or we hate thin people, okay?

  96. I don’t see what purpose is served by diagnosing the pretty, skinny blonde women as unhealthy.

    I completely agree that it’s unproductive to assume she’s unhealthy just because she’s very thin – lots of people are naturally thin and healthy. But her attitudes about food are very unhealthy. Feeding children white bagels is child abuse? A child can’t have a cupcake on his or her birthday? Being in the presence of ice cream toppings is a threat to people’s health? It sounds like disordered eating to me. Add that to the fact that she’s very thin although she comes from a fat family, and I think it’s very likely that she has an eating disorder (and is probably teaching disordered eating to her children, which is sad).

  97. I want you guys to know that nothing is going to stop me from having mashed potatoes with Brie tonight. Just because Dr. Bimbo needs to hear my pleasure-slobbering noises from afar.

  98. Thanks for posting the videos. I was interested to see how the show went. I enjoy reading all of these blogs and learning from the arguments everyone is having.

  99. You guys? I had milk this morning. MILK, I tell you. White, liquid, calorie-having evilness, all over my cereal.

    …I’m going to die.

  100. Yeah, that Mike guy was a douche. I’m glad he wants to just LOOK at people and just KNOW if they’re healthy or not, but we live on planet Earth, not in BigotBoyDouchebagLand.

    And MeMe Roth is a assclown. I’m glad Rachel talked over her at that one point so the truth could be heard! PWNED!

    And just what the fuck is wrong with thinking fat can be beautiful, I’d like to know? OH NOEZ TEH FATZ IZ ENDIN TEH WURLDZ!!

    *glorifies fat*

  101. Seemed one of the female doctors freaked a little. “Oh my God, you’re aggrandizing fat.” And the chubby women were defensive from the get-go. I didn’t see the husbands. Can’t imagine what they said. “Well, my wife is a great gal.”

    I think every post I’ve submitted to the Fatosphere has been deleted. But still, I don’t buy the doctors. Neither do I buy the bloggers, we’re fat and will just stay fat and that’s great. I

    would lean more toward the bloggers point of view if I didn’t live with a 400-pound exhusband. I saw what being… if you’re a chubby chaser… delightfully chubby lead to. I’m chubby myself so, I know my exhusband’s condition… and… despite high blood pressure, basically healthy guy. Still, I see it’s hard for him to stand long, impossible for him to walk much.

    I just don’t know.

    I personally am attempting a diet. For myself, my ex, my kids, who are already chubby.

    I love to eat. It’s the way I enjoy myself. I find heavy people attractive. Abd I think there is obviously discrimination at work and in many areas of life. Really easy to make a fat joke at a time when most other forms of discrimination are regarded as inappropriate.

    But if I try to diet, I want to think I can change something.

  102. Hey, we can scoff at the doctor’s advice, but look at the facts: we are the first generation of Americans ever to drink milk, and also the first generation of Americans to experience the tragedy and heartbreak of death. These are no coincidences.

  103. When I was taking a health class in college, we spent literally three days talking about how low fat milk is so much better than 2%. THREE DAYS.

    Anyway, I drink fat free milk (not ’cause it’s fat free. Because I honestly think it tastes better), but we were told we should not be drinking very much milk! It is bad!!!

    Then we did one of those food diaries, where you have to write down Every Single Thing that goes into your mouth for about four days. And at the end you calculate all the calories and vitamins and minerals.

    Guess what I found out? That obscene amount of milk I drink? It’s what fulfills basically all of my potassium and vitamin D requirements. Without it, my tendedncy towards potassium deficiency would probably take over my life. And I didn’t know that I had that tendency before. But it turned out that I liked milk so much because my body was naturally craving the things it was prone to lacking.

    Crazy that. Listening to my body and not the crazy MILK IS TEH DEVIL teacher was keeping me healthy!

    But of course, white foods and liquids with calories are bad, so maybe I should just give up my healthy, delicious drink.

    What’s really insane is that from the same woman who was saying Never Drink Milk and if you must drink milk Only Drink The Fatless Kind, we were told that 7 out of 10 women don’t get enough calcium.

    Huh.

  104. Hmm- I’d better start eating artificially-colored fruit-flavored yogurt instead of that organic plain *white* stuff I eat every morning!

    If you click on “Health”on the front-page of the Mike & Juliet website, you’ll see that almost every item is about weight-loss! Because that’s all you need to know about health, apparently.

    It’s great to see the video with Mo & Rachel at the top of the page as a dissenting vote.

  105. Hey, we can scoff at the doctor’s advice, but look at the facts: we are the first generation of Americans ever to drink milk, and also the first generation of Americans to experience the tragedy and heartbreak of death. These are no coincidences.

    I think I just died to ded. OMG. I can’t stop laughing.

  106. A big thankyou for the youtube clips cause I forgot to wake up in time to watch. And I 2nd, 3rd, and 75th everyone else congratulating Rachel and Monique on being calm and extremely articulate.

    I was surprise Roth wasn’t nearly as nasty as I’ve seen before, even though she was spouting the same tired, over-simplified rhetoric yet AGAIN. She was a bit sputtery, which, hee.

    The ‘doctor’ was a complete idiot. No white food? I’m surprised no one giggled when she mentioned height and weight not being important, but BMI was. It reminded me of an episode of ‘Scrubs’ where the main character J.D is being followed by a opera singer; when he says something truly stupid, opera guy sings a booming ‘MISTAAAAAKE!!’ at him. Man, that dude would of come in handy.

    Also? *puts down V8 drink and slaps forehead*
    Coulda hadda martini.

  107. I want you guys to know that nothing is going to stop me from having mashed potatoes with Brie tonight. Just because Dr. Bimbo needs to hear my pleasure-slobbering noises from afar.

    Oh, Meowser … please don’t die from eating 2 “white” foods at once (or is it 3, if you count the milk in the mashed potatoes?) Because the white food will KILL us all!

    /sarcasm

  108. “Um, BMI is SOLELY about height and weight, it’s actually a shorthand for it.”

    Meowser, I know that’s the only criteria they use for calculating it, but I remember when I first started hearing about it they said that using height and weight to figure it was really inaccurate, and that to figure it out you really needed a tank of water, and…jeez I can’t remember what else. But it was supposed to figure the ratio of fat-to-lean in your body, and they said even then (must have been about 16 years or more ago when I read this) that using weight and height was a very very inaccurate shortcut to figuring out someone’s actual BMI, but to really calculate it accurately was such an involved process that they almost never did it.

  109. I have an idea. I’ll have lasagna – white lasagna noodles, with ricotta cheese, and mozzarella. No tomato sauce – this time cream of celery soup (it’s white!) and pine nuts. That’s FOUR white things in one dish. Now let’s top that one! :P

  110. Great job this morning! I noticed that the doc said that “800
    people a day” were dying of obesity. Doing the math, I see
    that she’s hanging on to the old “300,000 a year” number,
    discredited 2 years ago by the Flegal/CDC study. I wonder
    why she expressed it as “800 a day.” Is she being evil and
    trying to hide the use of the old 300,000 number, or is she
    just stupid?

  111. Wow.

    The hosts of that show… kind of dumb.

    Rachel and Mo– beautiful.

    Meme Roth– an idiot.

    And omg if kids are watching and they figure out its OK to be themselves? What will we do!!

  112. Alexandra Erin- I must have brain overload, cause I seriously had to read that twice to realize you were kidding. Funny.

  113. Oh, Annie McPhee, I feel challenged by your…um…white food challenge.

    I think I shall have a cauliflower, parsnip, potato mash with milk and Swiss cheese and a creamy garlic sauce.

    Is that six or seven white foods in one dish?

    Who cares? I think it sounds remarkably delicious and I think I’m going to make it for dinner tomorrow. I don’t have any parsnips or Swiss cheese in the house, ATM.

  114. Mmmm. Howsabout baked scallops?

    Contains: Scallops, breadcrumbs, cheese, white wine. Serve with a side of cauliflower. Have vanilla icecream for dessert!

  115. Yeah, and he basically misses the point that “Fat Acceptance” is just as much accepting YOUR SELF as it is others.

  116. Regarding white foods: You know yesterday when I ate my salad with white chedder, califlower, and boiled eggs(not to mention the ranch dressing!) my first thought was definitely how this was going to kill me faster than cigarrettes, alcohol, and drugs. That’s right, I’m just a fat girl with a death wish. Bring on the potatoes.

  117. Twistie- Not the garlic! Forget what people have told you about the health benefits of garlic…if you look at it, you know it is WHITE and therefore VERY VERY BAD! I know some people who feed it to their dogs to keep fleas away, and I think the humane society should go take those dogs away, cause feeding them garlic is serious abuse!

  118. AnnieMcPhee, you’re thinking of body fat percentage. There’s no “actual BMI” separate from height and weight — it’s defined by height and weight (specifically, it’s weight divided by height squared).

    SarahLee, if you’re having a problem with comments getting deleted, you might consider making a comment about the matter at hand, and not about your diet. See comments policy.

    (ETA: But also that “never made a comment that didn’t get deleted” thing is straight-up bunk, as I personally hand-approved one of your comments quite recently.)

    Alexandra Erin, I loled.

  119. Also, I totes meant to make a “what’s your favorite white foods” thread in response to this, but things got busy at work and now it’s too late. Y’all are always a step ahead. Well, carry on!

  120. Let’s see…

    1. no white foods
    2. no liquid calories
    3. get more sleep

    (..gets immediate urge to sit up at 2am eating a big bread bowl of clam chowder….)

  121. Mmm…mashed potatoes made with milk, sour cream, and white cheddar. As a side for chicken–chicken is white, right?

  122. WHY DO YOU GUYS ALWAYS PUT CHEESE IN YOUR MASHED POTATOES

    SERIOUSLY IT IS SO WEIRD TO ME

    Is this like a regional thing or something, or is it just me and my picky eating habits? I have never in my life considered putting cheese in mashed potatoes.

  123. White foods that are TEH UNHEALTHY WHITE OMGWTF:

    1. Cauliflower
    2. Garlic
    3. Chicken
    4. Potatoes
    5. Turnips
    6. Fish
    7. Yogurt
    8. Milk
    9. Turnips
    10. Onions
    11. White lettuce
    12. Rice noodles
    13. Bean sprouts
    14. White radishes
    15. White cheeses

    *dies from white*

  124. I’m a person who thinks just about everything is improved with cheese.

    I dip my french fries in cheese, and sprinkle shredded cheese on my baked potato. And I mush it in my mashed potatoes. It all has pretty much the same taste, barring the different kinds of cheese.

    But, um…I reckon it’s ’cause you’re picky. You should totally try it, though! :-D

  125. The thing about white bread, pasta, rice is that yes, stripping out the part that makes it brown strips out a lot of the nutrients BUT, in North American at least, those things are enriched with the nutrients that got stripped out. Apart from fibre, there is little nutritional difference between white foods and brown foods. I figured that out after spending like 20 minutes standing in the grocery store reading nutritional labels on various packages of pasta and rice, trying to decide whether the nutritional difference was enough to justify buying the brown rice I dislike rather than the white rice I like. Turns out, there wasn’t.

  126. 16. PARSNIPS

    For reals, you guys.

    Also white beans, and regular noodles, and um, white asparagus. And bananas, of course. And oatmeal, although I guess technically that’s more of an oatmeal color. But cream of wheat!

  127. I think Meme Roth said a mouthful when she said that
    being big is not beautiful. She’s determined to literally
    keep all fat people behind close doors. As much as
    people love to debate, I don’t see this issue ever
    being resolved in the future.

    Also, did anyone see Mo’Nique on Oprah’s show today?
    I guarantee within 3months-1 year she’ll be on a diet.
    I find it HIGHLY suspicious that within a year of appearing
    on her show that Queen Latifah is now doing commercials
    for Jenny Craig. Now there’s talk of a national health care
    system and not giving health insurance to the elderly,
    the obese and smokers, which is fine as long as I don’t
    have to pay for other people.

  128. Wow, how annoying is Meme Roth? 800 people a day die of obesity? Yeah, right.

    Also, the other woman… Dr. What’s-her-name “You can’t just look at height and weight… you have to look at body mass index”… er, that is height and weight, duh. I wonder if she’s related to the UK’s very own “Dr.” Gillian McKeith.

    And then pulling out the “kids will be watching this…” card. It’s not like they aren’t subjected to body-hating, pro-weightloss stuff every day, is it?

    Also I think both Rachel and Monique are gorgeous. :) They were very articulate and sounded like the sort of sane and self-assured people I’d want to emulate… hope there were a lot of kids watching :)

  129. I guess I have certainly seen people put cheese in a baked potato, even though I wouldn’t do it. (Most types of cheese don’t agree with me anyway.) I guess my feeling on mashed potatoes is, why take away from the glory of butter? It actually took me YEARS to come around to putting black pepper in them (or on anything).

    I like to think of myself as having simple tastes. :)

  130. I prefer my mom’s mashed potatoes without cheese, as they are simply divine as is. But otherwise, I too am of the opinion that everything is improved by cheese!

  131. I can understand that, FJ, for sure.

    Actually, I put damn near everything fattening and delicious in my mashed potatoes: butter (lots), sour cream (lots), milk (just enough), cheese (if the mood strikes me), and plenty of salt and pepper. When I make ‘em for every one else, I add bacon (and bacon and I are no longer friends.)

    Hm. Upon rereading my list, I wish I had simple tastes. All hail the power of butter! :-D

  132. First of all, Mo and Rachel are gorgeous! I was so proud to see a couple of my favorite bloggers on TV.

    I had a jerk reaction when the host was like “wait…you want acceptance? You want people to like you the way you are?” I’m surprised his head didn’t explode.

    I finally understand why you guys dislike Meme so much…I’ve read some of her stuff, but seeing her on TV (actually, YouTube) really brought it home for me. She’s a sight to behold.

    Oh, and God forbid that kids accept themselves for who they are and are taught good self esteem at a young age…I would have killed to have someone come up to me as a child and tell me that I was fine just the way I was (actually, I’d kill for that now, and I’m 22).

    That Dr. almost had me throwing things…no liquid calories unless it’s a beer or something. And the white foods thing? Totally ignorant! I’d like to know where she got her degree.

    Great job ladies! Way to lay the smackdown on those clowns and represent FA with style (loved both outifts, btw) and class.

  133. And the best part is, she sees herself as the Messiah of humanity. Like, I’m here to tell you how to live a better life! She’s like a Baptist minister trying to save the gayz from themselves.

  134. Twistie- Not the garlic! Forget what people have told you about the health benefits of garlic…

    You know, has it occurred to anyone that Meme Roth and her ilk might just be . . . vampires?

    Oh wait, blood has calories. I guess not.

  135. Great job! Like some of the others here, thank God these two ladies had the poise and class to speak this message. So important to be heard. BTW I personally think that Meme needs to start a Big Ear Acceptance Blog. What an ugly bitter trog. JMO!

  136. I’m completely ambidextrous with the cheese on potatoes question. I love all sorts of cheese, and I love potatoes and I love how they taste together. YMMV, but to my mind few things cannot be improved by the addition of cheese…but most of them are also exquisitely yummy sans cheese.

    Fillyjonk, I’ll happily save you from any and all cheese, if you like.

    (dons brave cheese-eating armor)

  137. Oh, and on favorite white foods – I’m pretty sure that doctor would die if she saw the pizza I had the other day. It was a thin (white flour, natch) crust topped with a thin layer of garlic mashed potatoes, topped with mozzarella, then with thin slices of potatoes and nice big chunks of BACON. Awesome.

  138. I’ll slam myself into the pile of compliments – Mo and Rachel were brilliant!

    Am I the only one who thinks MeMe looks like that horrid woman from 10 Years Younger? I don’t know if they show it in America, but a quick Google Image Search will should loose her upon your monitor.

    P.S. White pasta with white cheddar for dinner, I’m going to burn for this!

  139. Okay, 3rd comment: The irony of Meme Roth for me is that I actually agree with her on many points: Putting cartoon characters on kids’ food, pumping foods full of preservatives; I’m not down with any of those things. BUT: I eat fresh fruits and veggies and tofu and nonfat yogurt, and I’m a size 12. So according to Meme, I’m automatically unhealthy and should lose weight out of self-loathing.

  140. Now I am feeling inspired…

    I will float my three bags of marshmallows along with a bunch of white glazed Dunkin’ Donut munchkins in a bowl of cream and then sprinkle sweetened shredded coconut and white chocolate chips on top. I will call it “Rose’s All White Breakfast Cereal”

    I will make a video of myself enjoying my new cereal invention and I will make sure to eat it in the most disgusting way possible while making orgasam noises! Then I’ll send it to Dr. “Escapee From a 1980s Robert Palmer Video,” MeMe, Mike and Juliet (aka: Himbo n’ Bimbo in The Morning) and Dan Savage so that they can have seizures watching me.

    Oh the great ideas you guys give me!

  141. fillyjonk, mash them up, add butter, mash more, add 1 raw egg, mash more (the egg gets mashed in and cooks, don’t sweat the salmonella). Splash of cream or milk or whatever your fridge has (i do this on the hob still otherwise it all gets a bit cold). Mmmmmmmmmmash!

    This was great stuff. The “doctor” really did remind me of Gillian McKeith. We should all totally follow her doctrines so we can look like her – a surprised, emaciated weasel.

    I love the idiocy of the whole thing. The hosts had no fucking idea what to say or ask, the medical people were hammering out the same crap as last year and the year before, and Rachel and Mo were twinkly stars of reason. Part of me laughs to think that these people really do think they can discredit fact by being famous and appearing disbelieving and another part of me is saddened that the pathetic framework provided for that piece is what is passing for journalism these days.

    Incidentally, whoever it was way up top who said they’d have sat on them and that obesity kills, i spit soda on my keyboard with the laughing. You owe me!

  142. I think the cheese on potato phenomenon began 15 or so years ago when fast food restaurants sold stuffed potatoes — potatoes with cheese, broccoli and chicken on the top, etc. Some stands sold only stuffed potatoes.

    Wasconsidered healthy at the time. But these stuffed potato vendors vanished from the East Coast.

    They were good. Couldn’t compete with salads on the one hand, and burgers and fries on the other, I guess.

    Recently, nutritionists began calling potatoes empty food. So all those hordes of Europeans who ate little but potatoes and died without them had poor understanding of nutrition. Had they only understood, they would have eaten more turnips before they starved.

  143. Obviously the problem is that us fatties are eating too much white food

    Black food for everyone.

    Rachel and Mo, you were fabulous and gorgeous and, most importantly, coherent and able to string sentences together in a meaningful fashion.

    Yeah. That.

    :D

  144. I didn’t see the husbands. Can’t imagine what they said. “Well, my wife is a great gal.”

    I may be misreading you, but do you mean this like that’s all a husband of a fat wife could possibly truthfully come up with? Some of us do find our fat spouses incredibly attractive… really.

    I think every post I’ve submitted to the Fatosphere has been deleted. But still, I don’t buy the doctors. Neither do I buy the bloggers, we’re fat and will just stay fat and that’s great.

    Maybe the reason you’re getting deleted is that you’re not bothering to learn anything about what it is you’re criticizing, and that’s irritating. That is *not* what FA is about. It’s true that for most people dieting doesn’t work — lifelong maintenance starvation makes them miserable and unhealthy, and temporary dieting makes them fatter than they were to begin with. For some people, “dieting” in the sense of *no longer eating dysfunctionally* certainly can lead to losing weight healthily and long-term. FA doesn’t deny that. All it says is that fat isn’t inherently bad or ugly, and that for many of us it’s not something that we can realistically and healthily avoid, therefore it’s a good thing for us to embrace our bodies the way they are and treat them well.

    Alexandra Erin said: Hey, we can scoff at the doctor’s advice, but look at the facts: we are the first generation of Americans ever to drink milk, and also the first generation of Americans to experience the tragedy and heartbreak of death. These are no coincidences.

    Heh. You know, I’ve never drank milk. Well, not since I was weaned at 14 months anyway (yay mom for going that long in the breastfeeding-negative ’60′s.) And whaddya know, I’m still fat. (Pretty sure I’m going to die someday, too!) Yeah, yeah, there are more nourishing foods and less nourishing foods, and I’m aware of the arguments against cow’s milk. I just think it’s laughable how every few years a new food is demonized and held accountable for the world’s ills. Oh, high fructose corn syrup is another one that people are currently hysterical about. Well guess what, I don’t eat that either; nor corn products in general for that matter. And I’m still fat! It’s a mystery. (Although, shhh, there’s still the baby doughnuts. They will no doubt be my downfall.)

  145. A few more unhealthy white foods for the mix: canellini beans, butter beans, navy beans, daikon, jicama, water chestnuts, raw button mushrooms, white eggplant (a thai variety), egg whites, cottage cheese, ricotta, tofu, chicken breast, turkey breast.

    (Hey, aren’t we supposed to eat egg whites instead of whole egg to get thin?? And lots of fibre? And lean protein?)

  146. And I stopped listening to her when she said we have to look at BMI not just height and weight. We have to look at area people, not just width and length!

    Hey, we can scoff at the doctor’s advice, but look at the facts: we are the first generation of Americans ever to drink milk, and also the first generation of Americans to experience the tragedy and heartbreak of death. These are no coincidences.

    Oh my God, all you guys are cracking me up, but these are the two comments where I actually had to stop reading for a minute because I was laughing so hard.

    Rachel and Mo were fabulous, they looked amazing, and they were clearly the most well-informed people on that set.

    Dr. Newport-News was really pissing me off. She apparently got her M.D. off the back of a (whole-grain) cereal box. There is no nutritional value in beverages! Vitamin C is not a nutrient! Also, if not sleeping enough makes you ZOMG FAT!, then why do these people also insist that fatties are lazy? The cognitive dissonance! It burns!

    MeMe Roth can bite me. I hate her and her assface and every time she’s on my screen. I want to put my fist through it. It was the wedding dress/fraud thing that really pushed me from mild loathing to batshit crazy rage. TPTB need to stop giving her a forum in which to spew her ill-informed, prejudiced bullshit.

  147. hold on, I’m confused. Are apples going to kill me or not? The outside is colored, but the inside is white, just like potatoes! and potatoes are the DEVIL’S FOOD!

    And does this apply to meat, too? Should I stop eating chicken? Pork’s the “other white meat,” does that make it “the other food that will kill me?”
    oh shit. fish is white too! But…but…I thought fish was healthy!

    I think what truly mystifies me is the logic behind the idea that people will not take good care of themselves if they aren’t actively shamed. Cause I guess low self-esteem is a proven motivator? That’s why people with depression are such go-getters, right?

    But then I have to remind myself that it’s not really about logic, it’s about fear, and flat-out bigotry. Which is a depressing thought.
    And then I’m depression and all I want to do is sit around and eat delicious delicious white death.

  148. Y’know, I’ve been really excited about fat acceptance and intuitive eating lately… and while I’m doing oodles of fiction writing I’ve also been looking for an excuse to get back to my first love, satire.

    Hmmm.

    *quietly sneaks off to register a domain*

  149. Oh, dear. Dinner tonight is soup made with leaks, cabbage, parsnips and chicken. Do the green bits of leek and cabbage cancel out the white? I’ve added whole-wheat macaroni, but not the whole pound that seems to be required.

    Ooh, jicama! Here’s a recipe for a nice jicama salad:

    Diced jicama, grapefruit segments orange segments (remove all the fruit pith and peel, and the clear membrane on the segments), cucumber slices, dried coconut shreds (unsweetened) and slivered almonds.

    This is a very refreshing salad and the ingredients are nice when most salad greens are at their worst.

  150. @ielerol, you eat the peel and throw the apple away, obviously. Though you can eat the seeds, since they’re colored. The same principle applies to chicken from KFC. Eat the skin, throw away the meat. It’s just empty calories.

  151. *looks up from her dinner of red meat and sticky rice*

    White food what?

    Oh, and I love how you guys totally pwned the host… “But what if children see you?”

    “Then they’ll learn to love themselves and grow up to be happy, healthy people.”

    So much win.

  152. Dr. Whitefood actually reminded me of those dreams you have where you have to give a speech or be in a play and you’ve never rehearsed and you have to do it completely off the cuff. “And… you should never eat… white foods!” It was like she was making up diet tips on the spot, through a cold sweat, hoping she’d wake up soon.

    I’ve added whole-wheat macaroni, but not the whole pound that seems to be required.

    ROFL

    I just encountered jicama for the first time when meeting with a caterer. That stuff is good!

  153. This was an awesome segment. You girls did a marvelous job. The only part that really made me uncomfortable is when they talked about fat acceptance being some kind of new idea circulating in the “fatosphere” (a “new” online community). Lord, where have they been???

    Why did it bother me? I feel like it shoves me into a box– and I hate to be in a box. I’m a body image specialist working with girls and parents– can I only talk about fat acceptance in the “Fatosphere?” I hope not. It also painted the picture, in my opinion, that the only people who are talking about this topic are fat people in the “Fatosphere.” That’s just ridiculous, don’t you think? I’m a naturally thin person and I still feel that we should be treating every single person, regardless of weight or size, with dignity and respect. Would this come as a surprise to them? They were so worried about sending the message to our kids that being unhealthy and fat was OK that they missed the great opportunity to tell kids that being skinny wasn’t the goal– being healthy was the goal. Thanks to the girls for highlighting that point since the hosts did not!!

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  155. It was a thin (white flour, natch) crust topped with a thin layer of garlic mashed potatoes, topped with mozzarella, then with thin slices of potatoes and nice big chunks of BACON.

    Omg. That just sounds ridonkulously good. I think I need a meal consisting of that pizza and the dessert one I had recently: a thin WHITE! crust with a layer of Nutella as sauce, topped with mini marshmallows, regular and WHITE! chocolate chips, and salted peanut halves.

  156. I think what truly mystifies me is the logic behind the idea that people will not take good care of themselves if they aren’t actively shamed. Cause I guess low self-esteem is a proven motivator? That’s why people with depression are such go-getters, right?

    Nail. Hammer.

    Also, ROFL.

  157. OMG, Rachel and Mo, let me add my voice to the chorus: you were AMAZING. Articulate, self-possessed, stylish as hell — and you didn’t once attempt to wallop Meme Roth. My god. You’re amazing.

    Just to clarify for some people who have talked about the “two doctors” on this thread: Meme Roth is NOT a doctor. She’s just the self-appointed Queen of Anti-Fat Nutjobbery.

    Hey, we can scoff at the doctor’s advice, but look at the facts: we are the first generation of Americans ever to drink milk, and also the first generation of Americans to experience the tragedy and heartbreak of death. These are no coincidences.

    Alexandra Erin, you have stolen my heart.

  158. Fillyjonk, how exactly does one get in line for a little of this “hand-approval” action? Does one have to troll, or what? Cause it sounds sexy.

    White Foods:
    - Chickpeas
    - Fennel Bulb
    - Daikon
    - chicken and turkey breast
    - pork tenderloin
    - tofu
    - yogurt
    - ricotta, cottage and 1 billion other varieties of cheese
    - white yams
    - white onions
    - water chestnuts
    - jicama
    - cauliflower
    - white beans
    - rice, soy, almond milk
    - mushrooms
    - also: apples, bananas, pears, blueberries, (white flesh) peaches + nectarines, rambutans, lychees…that is, ON THE INSIDE, MOFO!

    And lets not forget, the most delicious, the humble yet EVILLLLLLL marshmallow.

  159. WHY DO YOU GUYS ALWAYS PUT CHEESE IN YOUR MASHED POTATOES

    SERIOUSLY IT IS SO WEIRD TO ME

    The mashed potato recipe around my house: potatoes, a brick of cream cheese (WHITE), and milk. A trifecta of WHITE FOODS.

  160. I would also add that the “we are the first generation to drink milk” comment, the “area” comment and the “Dr. Newport News” comment collectively have had me snickering for a good ten minutes. I just can’t stop. Y’all are too damn funny, it’s dangerous.

    The best comment I’ve seen lately though was on the NY Times article comments, some woman wrote, “If guys think we should lose weight, well maybe men should gain weight…in their diiiiicccks.” I almost had an accident. Did one of you write that? Come on, own up!

  161. The same principle applies to chicken from KFC. Eat the skin, throw away the meat. It’s just empty calories.

    Don’t forget the bones!

  162. Sorry, Krista! That just goes to me, and I was out for the afternoon. I was actually saving it for a link round-up later in the week.
    No problem, Kate. I figured it was because you are very busy, which would be the same reason that I took so long to blog about it (that and a wonky laptop that is still limping along). I am impatient ;) Must be all those baby donuts I force down my children’s throats.

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  164. Sass, if you change your IP address that’s probably good enough. (Comments from people who haven’t posted before go to the moderation queue.)

  165. Holy mother of God, Sniper, that jicama salad sounds SO damned good I may run to the store tonight so I can make it right away. Even if the color of the jicama (and coconut! and almonds!) will cause me to gain 500 pounds and die from the fatness, which is my understanding of how this works.
    It’s going into my Word-document cookbook now, as a matter of fact, as Jicama Salad of Evil.

  166. It’s going into my Word-document cookbook now, as a matter of fact, as Jicama Salad of Evil.

    Hee! Well I have to call it that now, of course.

  167. Man, what planet is this Meanie Meme woman on where fat is already accepted? I think I want to vacation there.

  168. “AnnieMcPhee, you’re thinking of body fat percentage. There’s no “actual BMI” separate from height and weight — it’s defined by height and weight (specifically, it’s weight divided by height squared).”

    Ah, thanks, fillyjonk. I’m rather acronym-challenged :D

    Also, I never ever thought of putting cheese in mashed potatoes with the sole exception of homemade pierogies, in which I use a filling that is mashed potatoes, onion, and cheddar cheese. I am going to try it and see how it comes out; the other night the blue cheese sounded good, but I just don’t know. I tend to like mashed taters pretty plain.

  169. k73, I don’t see it, and seeing as how we don’t put up with “real women have curves” and “she should eat a sandwich” jokes around here, I doubt it would have been allowed to stand. (Although I’d probably make an exception for MeMe and that doctor, both of whom have gone on record as opposing things like sandwiches. Bread is white.)

  170. I started watching this and I literally said to myself, “They are actually allowing this on television?” Of all the fat-acceptance/HAES debating I’ve seen on TV, I think this is a landmark. So tired, though, will have to process this later.

  171. It grossed me out that they felt the need to make sure Teh Husbands OK’ed what their womenfolk were up to, but fortunately they didn’t dwell on that.

    Rachel and Monique acquitted themselves beautifully.

    And when that doctor was talking about never drinking orange juice, EVER*, I could feel my anxiety rising. GAH.

    *Though apparently vodka tonics are fine, in moderation. I don’t think these people even know what they’re saying anymore.

  172. Also, holy crap: My spatial skills leave a lot to be desired, but isn’t a pound of pasta kind of a lot? Mightn’t that indicate a more serious problem with disordered eating than food colorblindness?

  173. I didn’t take it as having the husbands “ok” their activities, but more of an incredulousness that they are married, first of all, and happily so at that. How can anyone who is fat possibly snag a mate? Surely he must be miserable to have such a disgusting wife. And so on and so forth.

    Which is really ridiculous. I meet more men than not who are more attracted to someone who’s not skinny, who is voluptuous like an Ann Margaret, who is chubby, and then there are plenty of plain fat admirers. It would be ridiculous to think that beautiful women like these two would have any problem connecting with good spouses, but that’s just what they think. Or that at the least the men are probably miserable. And that just makes me mad, as opposed to creeped out.

  174. I’m not going to say Meme Roth is unhealthy (I think her ideas are, but physically I couldn’t say)… but she strikes me as a profoundly unhappy person. She stayed thin like she promised Eddie Van Halen, she still fits into her wedding dress… and she goes upending sundae bars at the local Y and screaming child abuse about bagels.

    Did she look happy in that video? Does she ever look happy?

    I believe she’s got herself as thin as she can be and doesn’t understand why it doesn’t feel more worthwhile, so she’s turned it into a Cause. Some people eat to fill the void within them… she tries to fill hers by spewing.

  175. “so the BMI standards were lowered to include more people as fat because of “health consequences.” I don’t even understand that sentence.”

    Yeah, I think she meant that they were lowered to create the opportunity to either bring them up more or make more of them up.

  176. OMG rachel and monique i just watched it on my DVR, you were AMAZING!!!! so eloquent, and u kept ur cool, and u said really important things, and u looked so beautiful on top of that. YAY!!!

  177. It always hurts my brain that MeMe Roth and Geneen Roth share a surname. I find no evidence on the all-knowing InTarWebs that they are in fact related, but I always think of how ironic it would be if the two of them were indeed sisters.

    Off to cook some chicken. But I’m going to cover it with some pomegranate molasses in hopes that it will dye the white chicken pink and I won’t wake up dead tomorrow morning.

  178. “Wurd FJ.
    If I’d been there I totally would have sat on Meme Roth. She’s right, obesity does kill.”

    “Oh right, the fat fat fatties. She totally caught me, I was going to eat pound of pasta with baby sauce for dinner. But now I’ll make sure it’s whole grain pasta and 100% organic babies.”

    shinobi, you are cracking me up! ROFLMAO
    Thanks for these gems.

  179. I just had black bean burritos with mole sauce. At first I thought I was going to lose weight, but then I realized: the tortillas are white! Will this balance out, or do I need to only eat the black items next time?

  180. I just fell totally in love with “obesity kills” shinobi. I have a sore throat, and the laughing nearly killed me.

  181. Don’t know if anyone else has mentioned this yet, but it pissed me off to see “Healthy At Every Size” as the header for Dr. Whitefood’s “health tips.”

    Healthy At Every Size: No white foods.

    Healthy At Every Size: Don’t drink your calories.

    Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

    Would have loved for Rachel and Mo to have had more time to talk.

    Kudos to both, and extra props to Rachel for rebutting “fat causes increased risks for xyz diseases” with mentioning research suggesting it’s dieting that causes those increased risks.

  182. Two Thoughts:
    1. If I had watched something along these lines in high school, and saw Mo and Rachel, and their husbands, I think it would have caused some serious cognative dissonance. It would have caused some short-circuting of the wires of being fat means I won’t be pretty, stylin’, accepted or loved.
    2. FJ, I’m not completely on board with your assertion with the movement of the diagnostic critera for prediabetes — for the most part, people aren’t put on pills for prediabetes. And if someone knows they have prediabetes and increases their exercise levels, makes maybe some tweaks to what they eat (like if they drink lots of regular soda, cutting back on that), they may be able to keep diabetes at bay for a while, or at least be monitored closely so that if they do move above 126 mg/dL fasting, they’ll know soon and can get the right treatment to prevent complications.
    There are some doctors who don’t buy the evidence for the 110 mg/dL cutoff, but if someone’s fasting blood glucose is creeping up, and there are some HAES-type changes they want to make, that knowledge isn’t a bad thing.

  183. (Sorry for double commenting, but) someone mentioned Queen Latifah. Have you seen the recent Jenny ads? ARGH.

    They talk about health, health, health. A woman on the street says in Queen’s general direction, “Getting healthier — nothing wrong with that.” Cut immediately to “Lose 20 pounds for $20 plus the cost of food.”

    I…n….f…u…r…i….a…..t…..i….n……g

  184. worthyourweight, but the cutoff isn’t 110. It was recently moved down to 100, which is what I’m talking about.

    for the most part, people aren’t put on pills for prediabetes.

    Oh, sure they are. There’s a certain amount of cultural variation among doctors, for sure, but they definitely are.

  185. paul and kristen – i, too, was gobsmacked by the whole “white foods” thing.

    NOTE: when confronted with the possiblity of cutting out alcohol, THEN she says “well, in moderation”. lol. but nobody gasped about the white foods.

    *white foods are evil*

    *white foods are the devil*

    *hitler ate white foods*

  186. MeMe Roth has some issues (and I think the Ann Coulter comparison was right on). A quick search found this article, http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/headline/3366.

    I wish there had been more time to directly answer MeMe and the Doc’s arguments. And to introduce the health factor and steer it away from just weight. Even the doc would have to admit that someone who is thin can be unhealthy.

    And the hosts. Ouch, why would it be horrible for a little kid to think it is OK he is chubby? Do we really have to get into kids and dieting with these folks? Really? They haven’t heard all this before?

  187. AnnieMcPhee and other commenters who said that the husbands might be there to indicate that fat does not equal unattractive or unloved:
    That’s a great point, I hadn’t thought of it that way. When I was 20 pounds thinner I was terrified of those 20 potential pounds, and why? Because of some vague sense that nobody would love me. In truth, all that’s happened is that my flat ass has filled out and I’m not anxious about food all the time.

    The way the host mentioned them — “let’s see what their husbands think” or similar — set off a trigger and I didn’t think much beyond that. Thanks!

  188. MeMe Roth looks like she has a pole rammed up her ass. Her statement “if the article had said ‘Thin is In’ there would be an outcry.” What fucking planet is she living on? Look at every fucking advertisement in every fucking women’s magazine — or every model walking down a catwalk….. oh yeah, big outcry.

    In all honesty, Rachel and Mo looked healthier than Meme Roth. Their skin glowed and their eyes were vibrant. Roth looked drawn, pasty and undernourished. I’m sure she must have starved herself for her big TV appearance.

    The “doctor” also described a trendy low carb diet – I’m sure the FDA would shit about her “don’t eat potato” comment. Lame. Her advice wasn’t for a HEALTHY diet, her advice was for WEIGHT LOSS.

  189. WE’RE BACK!!!!!!!!!

    Thanks SO SO much for all the wonderful comments. I have never been so proud of myself in my life

    It really hit me as the show was about to begin – I went from being a fat kid who really did think I was worthless to having a very serious eating disorder to being on national television demanding recognition that I am just fine the way I am. I almost started to tear up but luckily I got my composure.

    We just got in and so I have to process everything, but the best part of the experience didn’t make it on tape. We had a BIG BIG fight in the greenroom after the greenroom discussion. I will elaborate later, but to sum it up: Meme started whining and crying about how we were all making fun of her and distorting her words. So, I offered to feature her in an interview on MY site to clear the air and all these misconceptions she thinks we have. SHE RAN AWAY FROM US! She refused to do it and made some lame excuse about her car and she literally RAN AWAY from me.

    OK – so THANKS THANKS again everyone. More details to come on my blog.

  190. FJ, that was me, wellroundedtype2, not worthyourweight, who took issue with the prediabetes comment.
    I meant to say (you caught my error) There are some doctors who don’t buy the evidence for the 100 mg/dL cutoff.
    Doctors who are up on their stuff would know that a fasting blood sugar test alone isn’t great evidence for putting someone on pills for prediabetes (the main medication that is prescribed, by the way, is generic at this point and not a whole lot of money is being made off of it now). People who have not only impaired fasting glucose, but also impaired glucose tolerance (diagnosed with an oral glucose tolerance test) are the ones who may benefit from pills for prediabetes.
    I thing reasonable people can disagree about the best diagnostic criteria for identifying who is at increased risk of developing diabetes.
    I’ve worked with many people who work to prevent diabetes complications, many of them are compassionate. The people who I know who work with people who have diabetes would much rather work with a fat person who is attending to their health than someone who thinks all health professions hate fat people and stays away until things are really bad.
    Some health professionals hate fat people. But I don’t believe there is a conspiracy to create more people with prediabetes by lowering the diagnostic criteria. I can understand why it might seem that way, but knowing many people in this field, I don’t think that’s the motivation. I think the motivation is to prevent the complications that diabetes can cause if it’s not treated early and appropriately.

  191. Ok, if someone could answer me this question.. (I know I could look this up myself, but I have to go eat my pound of pasta).

    I know the show said MeMe is the president of the National Action Against Obesity )I believe) but… what are her qualifications as an expert? I’ve known people that are in charge of something and have no idea about the inner workings. Is she a doctor? Has she done research? Is she up-to-date on the latest findings?

    Comming from the standpoint of a newbie and someone who was taught not to believe a word anyone says unless it’s the source (or an expert) I want to know WHY Fox thinks I should take her opinion as anything worth listening to. Her own background? That doesnt mean anything to me.. I’ve been bouncing between 168 and 220 for like 2.5 years now, I have my own history I know from. So what’s her research, her science, her education that makes her an expert?

    If someone could at the very least give me a reputable link with what her qualifications are, it would be very much appreciated!

    (And I wasn’t too impressed with her presentation anyway. She seemed canned and insincere to me. Mo and Rachel were, in my opinion, absolutely wonderful. They both seemed to know what they were talking about much more than MeMe or that Dr. lady seemed to.)

  192. OMG, Rachel and Mo’ ruled! I was really worried that they might be set up to fail. And at first when the host (er, kind of douchey) started asking about blood pressure and cholesterol I was so scared, but you two were amazing.

    And Meme Roth got mad because she felt like people were distorting her words? Er, this is the woman who appeared on The Daily Show of her own free will, right? What a weirdo.

  193. p.s. I had no idea who the hell meme roth was until now. I just googled her and watched the Fox News / Jordan Sparks is a lardass controversy……

    Meme Roth, you’re a cunt.

  194. Rachel, I have to say: your hairstyle is gorgeous and so flattering on you. You and Mo did very well, and MeMe Roth sounded like she was off her meds: if an article said thin was in it would be all over the news???? Does she look at magazine covers????

  195. oh my god, they were so GOOD! Articulate, genuine, sane, hot. That was a big win.

    I’ve seen Meme Roth worse than this, I do believe she was intimidated!

    Rose, I think you’re right. She was so silent compared to her usual self.

    And that doctor? Oh MY GOD. Everyone else has said it, but yeah. No white foods? BMI means what? Where the heck did they find her?

  196. “MeMe Roth looks like she has a pole rammed up her ass. Her statement “if the article had said ‘Thin is In’ there would be an outcry.” What fucking planet is she living on? Look at every fucking advertisement in every fucking women’s magazine — or every model walking down a catwalk….. oh yeah, big outcry.”

    It was startling, but I knew what she meant. She meant that those nasty fatties object to the headlines – *every freaking headline eva* that tell us how to lose 20 lbs and NOT lose our husbands or our self-esteem, how to lose weight fast, how to be THIN because thin is in…the mean old fat fat fatty McFatties object to those headlines and THEY would object, and that bothers her to her core. She doesn’t think we should exist or have a voice at all.

    jeninnyc – well, yep.

    Am I the only one who has quite often heard the white foods thing? I had a LLL friend years ago who, when I told her I wanted to try to eat healthier without dieting or worrying about weight, she was all for it. Her advice was to make small changes – such as not eating a meal that was all white. I was surprised – what did that mean? But that was 17 years ago. Then I had friends who went on a very popular diet not too long after (by then I think I had the internet) and it was the same thing – they said the diet was basically to eliminate all five of these things from your diet and you would lose weight – eliminate white flour, white rice, white sugar, potatoes and pasta. I looked at it and wondered what the hell is left?? What would I EAT? But it was basically that you eat salads and lean meats, blah blah pseudo-Atkins or something. Meh. But the white foods being bad is just more recycled hash.

    White bagels are abuse!

    Rachel: “So, I offered to feature her in an interview on MY site to clear the air and all these misconceptions she thinks we have. SHE RAN AWAY FROM US! She refused to do it and made some lame excuse about her car and she literally RAN AWAY from me.”

    You’re a lot nicer than me. To be honest, I looked at her blog and there hasn’t been an entry since October. I think she saw how they mocked her on the Daily Show (oh, that was priceless) and she knows that she’s hated, and she has been sort of hiding of late. I mean, really – it’s her own damn fault – if you go on television and say idiotic things like “Cupcakes are just like Antifreeze. Except one will poison you today and one will take years,” and that “Eating a cupcake is like putting a loaded gun in your mouth,” (she didn’t say it first, but she did answer “Yes” to the question – then you are going to be shown up for the idiotic fool that you are. She made her bed and doesn’t want to lie in it anymore. Looking back at all her other videos, she’s constantly backpedalling and trying to cover her ass. Oh well. So it’s not surprising to me to hear that she got upset and ran away.

    Looks like I came in to FA at exactly the right moment – I think the time is ripe :) Y’all must have been doing a great job of it so far.

  197. sad(?) to say I’ve never seen Meme Roth in action before. The camera person or segment editor guy sure seemed to think she was going to explode in fits of angry or something similar at one point.

    I was reading through the comments and I agree with whoever said Monique and Rachel look healthier and happier than Roth and the doctor. and that they’ve both got the hotness going on.

    All hail Petulant indeed! Thank you for the youtubingness :)

  198. Argh, with all that I forgot the other advice from my LLL leader friend – “eat as many different foods as possible in as close to their natural states as possible.” That really doesn’t sound like bad advice to me. I could be wrong :D

  199. Meme Roth, you’re a cunt.

    I think it’s an insult to lovely vagina to compare it to Meme Roth. My cunt is awesome!

    Really, that’s just an insult to vaginas and vagina-containing-persons in general.

  200. WAIT, there’s more to MeMe — she’s completely nuts.

    MeMe Roth: I see staying fit as an obligation to my self and my family. Back in the 80s when I was Van Halen’s “number one fan,” I did get the chance to meet the band. Eddie Van Halen made me promise I’d never get fat. He said I looked like something out of Playboy. Talk about making a girl swoon… I kept my part of the bargain; maybe he’ll come to the Wedding Gown Challenge?

    So some rock star made her promise to never get fat…..and she’s still obsessed with him because she wants him at her wedding gown challenge. Because aspiring to look like “something out of Playboy” is just so……..so………inspiring to people who are not emotionally inept. Meme, it’s called PSYCHOTHERAPY — GET SOME.

  201. I’ve already commented once, but now I’ve read all the comments and have to pipe in again. Did anyone else find themselves flinch when the male fake-tanned host started out by turning to Rachel and saying, “And I bet a lot of people look at that woman and say ‘she’s unhealthy.’”

    To show you just how effective this community has been for me, that was the LAST FUCKING ADJECTIVE I would have thought to use. When I heard “unhealthy” come out of his mouth, I was like, what the fuck planet are you living on man, and why are you on national television like you represent some approximation of reality?

    I love the face Rachel made when he said that, because it was, again, poised but clear. Because I would have rolled my eyes and been like “yeah, but they’re stupid!” Rachel handled it much more effectively, I thought.

  202. The good Dr. should have stuck to her original proclamation that it all depends, that was the most valid point that she and Meme had to say the whole time. Instead she follows it up by saying, but don’t eat these evil white foods. So which is it, does it all depend, or are all white foods bad for you? They sure have a way of harnessing Double-Think don’t they.

  203. White foods, huh?

    Well, if yellowtail sushi is wrong, I don’t want to be right!

    (And no, cheese doesn’t go in my mashed potatoes. Baked potatoes, however, are merely a medium for cheese! And sour cream, and yummm, scallions…)

    Can’t wait to watch the video…my home dialup won’t play nice with it, but hopefully my work computer will cooperate!

  204. But I don’t believe there is a conspiracy to create more people with prediabetes by lowering the diagnostic criteria.

    I’m not wild about the throwing around of the word “conspiracy” when you disagree with someone. There doesn’t have to be a “conspiracy” to create more people with prediabetes. Lowering the threshold does exactly that automatically, just like lowering the BMI threshold creates more overweight and obese people.

    If you create more ill people and then use that to fuel a panic about illness, then sorry, I don’t trust your diagnostic criteria. People with blood sugar between 100 and 125 should be active and eat fresh whole foods as much as possible because these are good things — the same reason fat people should do the same, if they can. Because these things are healthy — not because they’re diseased.

    If your blood sugar is going up steadily, that’s one thing. But speaking as someone who’s on medication and having lots of tests and increased dosages pushed because she has blood sugar that’s going DOWN but is above 100 (and below 110), yes, “prediabetes”/insulin resistance is treated as a disease in some medical cultures, there’s not an acknowledgment that people have different baselines, and a radical shifting of the disease definitions is considered to be a redefinition of what qualifies as healthy.

    Oh, sorry ’bout getting your name wrong.. worthyourweight posted right after you and I didn’t look up far enough.

  205. I am bothered by the fact that on these kinds of shows everyone equates fat/size acceptance with porn and fetishes. MeMe made it seem like fat acceptance activists came to this site to watch large women consume twinkies and chocolate covered bananas.

    White chocolate covered bananas, of course!

    Mo and Rachel were awsome! You both really made my day!

  206. Can’t make my way through all of the comments, but can I just say WOW. I usually avoid most daytime tv, most news segments on television and minimize my consumption of Obesity Alerts that get put out for the general public, so I think I’m a lot more sheltered than I could be. That said – man, did those hosts come across as rather dumb. I can’t pick anything as standing out more than the rest (other than the doc’s ‘it’s not about height and weight, it’s about BMI’ comment – was she dropped on her head before the show?), it all just blends into a WTF cloud. Massive kudos to Mo and Rachel for going on there and not rolling their eyes (as I kept doing), and for not letting themselves get steamrolled by the ridiculousness.

  207. I can’t wait to hear more about the greenroom showdown too! And how gracious and tolerant of you to invite her to your site, Rachel. It’s a shame she didn’t accept the invitation–that would have been verrrrry interrrresting.

    Of course I wouldn’t have been able to watch the fun anyway, as I just had some white Greek yogurt and I don’t expect to live to see the morn. If I’d made tzatziki (white insides of cucumbers! whole heads of white garlic!) I’d be too dead to write this comment.

  208. Okay, I finally watched it, and Rachel, you were amazing. You totally dominated that discussion, and you got lots of great points in. And I covet your hair =)

  209. I will confess that I do not have the stomach to watch the full video. My heart was pounding as soon as all four of the participants were introduced. I’m so…ANGRY at these people, who have so much apparent sway over others! I’m with everyone else–I would have been either hurling profane insults from the get go, or, more likely, crying and clutching my fat knees and agreeing that, yes, actually, I do eat too much white and I’m killing myself and the kittens. Still not there. Way impressed with Mo and Rachel.

  210. “To show you just how effective this community has been for me, that was the LAST FUCKING ADJECTIVE I would have thought to use. When I heard “unhealthy” come out of his mouth, I was like, what the fuck planet are you living on man, and why are you on national television like you represent some approximation of reality?”

    I know – that was lunacy. (Oddly, I just posted about that very thing at my place.) The only people who could possibly look at her and think “unhealthy” are idiots like Mememememe who are so fat-phobic that there’s nothing else they *allow* themselves to think. The thing is, until very recently, people would have looked at Rachel and *immediately* said “Healthy” and would have blinked a couple times in Mememememe’s direction and wondered if she weren’t a tad sickly. I kept looking at her after that and wondering why in the hell anyone would think “unhealthy.” Sounds like one media moron believes his own bullshit.

  211. White chocolate covered bananas, of course!

    I totally want one of those now. Or maybe dark chocolate. But then I’d lose Teh Fattehness of eating white foods. Sigh, decisions.

  212. I’ve only watched the first half so far but does anyone else get a vibe of “how shocking!” when the host says “We’ll talk to their husbands!” Like, how SHOCKING these women even HAVE HUSBANDS!

    Y’all must keep them tied to you with addictive foods. *nodnod*

  213. Yeah, Rachel and Monique were really great, talking about stuff like how the media uses the 500-pound-man-who-needs-to-be-lifted-with-a-crane scare tactic and all that. I can’t wait to see the greenroom ‘discussion’ lol.

    And Alexandra Erin, that website is awesome. ‘Good’ facts and ‘bad’ facts indeed!

  214. Hee, can’t wait for to learn about which facts about fat and health are good and bad. And you know, the conspiracy of the fat acceptance movement.

  215. Aaaargh! Wasn’t Sushi bringing eternal beauty, youth and immortality the other day? I was under the impression that it’s MADE of white rice, but maybe I’m confusing things, and it was Ambrosia.
    I guess the Japanese will be pretty startled when they hear about this new development. Whole grain Sushi. Yum!

    The fun of this all is multiplied tenfold when you’re watching this from Europe, where the local MeMes are preaching with the exact same conviction and fervour that we’re supposed to replace all that evil meat with healthy rice and potatoes, or we’re going to DIE obesity epidemic OMG yadda yadda.

    I wonder if there’s some kind of mysterious meat industry lobby in the US behind all this madness.

  216. ye gads, i really REALLY hope the average fox viewer has enough sensibility to be able to see who the more level-headed ones on the panel are. Sadly, i know more than a few impressionable individuals will only agree with Meme wrath and the tv doctor, and then proceed to follow all of their sickly advice and mindsets.

    I cant believe people can be so blind as to think that thinness is everything – common sense, human decency and respect for individuals has been thrown out of the window on this matter. But we already knew that.

    Great job Mo and Rachel! You really got one up in adverse conditions- they clearly didnt mean to ‘debate’, just to shout down such ‘unhealthy thinking’ that you guys so obviously have. cant have a voice of reason telling people to love themselves and not care that they have to look at fat people!

    Believe it or not, i actually wanted to punch the tv doctor more than meme. She’s the one who’s actually qualified to medically treat people, and she comes out with THAT CRAP. Meme I can ignore. Her, I have to resist the urge to give her two black eyes and make her swallow her (white) teeth.

  217. i was super-impressed with rachel, frustrated with the hosts, fuming at meme, and simply astonished at the doctor’s white foods speech. i know they thought they wanted a “balanced” perspective so they brought in two medical people for the two fat activists, but the -hosts- were antifat, too, so it was really 4 against 2. your composure against such odds is commendable!

    an aside: i’m really uncomfortable with the hitting and smacking that’s going on in this thread, though. casually talking about hitting other women, even when they’re being jerks, gives me the creeps.

  218. Doctors aren’t infallible, and there’s a real problem with people assuming that when a doctor blindly repeats what “everybody knows”, it means it’s Double Secret True.

    You ever that reading in dim light damages your eyes? It was started by General Electric, in a time when 1) most reading was still by candle or lamp light and 2) companies could get away with saying just about anything about anything and not having proof. They tried to make electric light a health issue… and they succeeded.

    Soon, “everybody knew” that you could permanently damage your eyes by reading in the dark… even doctors had no problem repeating the lie, and of course, since not just everybody knew but the doctors did, too, it was enshrined as fact. An ad campaign.

  219. Meme is actually just a spokesperson if I remember. I don’t think she’s the president.

    But she’s also a nutritionist. Scary just like the doctor that doesn’t know what BMI entails, no?

  220. an aside: i’m really uncomfortable with the hitting and smacking that’s going on in this thread, though. casually talking about hitting other women, even when they’re being jerks, gives me the creeps.

    I hadnt thought about it much, but you do have a very valid point.

    Though I totally want to smack the male host (forgot is name) too. Its an expression of absolute anger. maybe im just inwardly violent – i’d never actually hit someone in that situation, but i’d certainly want to. note, ‘resist the urge’.

    I dont think anyone here means any different – we all get some urge to be physically violent against people that anger us, even if its just for a split second.
    but you are right, violence is violence. and so is talking about willingly inflicting violence.

    My comment is quite a nasty visual image, actually. ouch.

  221. Is she actually a nutritionist, though? Or does she just speak out so frequently on the topic that she’s taken for one? Everywhere I’ve seen describes her as an “image consultant” or “marketing consultant.”

  222. Just wanted to throw in a WOW of my own — that was amazing. Rachel and Mo came off sounding professional and reasonable.

    Meme was her pinched, holier-than-thou meme self .

    And the Doctor tripped herself up with the “NEVER DRINK YOUR CALORIES” followed by the, “well, alcohol in moderation.”

    Our team wins!

  223. Holy shit, Alexandra Erin, pleasepleasepleaseplease let me play.

    And yes, MeMe Roth is an image consultant/publicist. She has no medical background of any kind.

    I’ve always understood “want to smack” as a metonymy rather than the expression of a literal desire — smacking just stands in for what you really want to do, which you’re generally not 100% sure of, and “I want to refute that person SO HARD” doesn’t really get the idea across anyway. As figurative language I think it’s fine. But it’s certainly worthwhile to consider the literal interpretation and its consequences.

  224. Roth is not a nutritionist and has no medical nor professional background in fat. None. Zero. Zilch.

    That’s important to point out.

  225. Paul – I did point it out, in our Greenroom Throwdown. She got SO SO pissed and started rattling off campaigns and boards she’s a member of. I interrupted her and said “Those aren’t medical degrees.” That’s when she ran off.

  226. Oh, I laughed so, so hard at the “don’t eat white foods” part. I teach in Hong Kong, and I’ve told a few of my students that some people consider rice to be unhealthy. They stared at me like I was insane.

    Even more interesting is that the HK government ran PSAs a few months back telling us that the proper way to balance a meal was for it to be 1/2 rice, 1/3 vegetables, and 1/6 meat. I couldn’t imagine the shock on some of those so-called experts’ faces when they saw what often passes for a healthy meal here – a large portion of white rice, vegetables fried in oil (and not vegetable oil or olive oil, peanut oil) and some pork or chicken – again, often pan-fried, because most people don’t have ovens. And many people hold Asians up as a paragon of healthiness because they tend to be slimmer than westerners.

  227. Meme is actually just a spokesperson if I remember. I don’t think she’s the president.

    She’s the founder of the Nat’l Action Against Obesity, and I don’t see any evidence that there are other members besides the woman blogging for her.

    And yes, as many have said, she has no medical credentials. I mean, neither do I, but since the only things I advise people to do are eat the foods their bodies need, exercise moderately,think critically, and stop hating themselves, I’m not really worried about it.

  228. Wait…MeMe Roth thinks there would be an outcry if there was a headline reading “thin is in”? She really DOES belong on Fox. Has she honestly never seen the cover of ANY FASHION MAGAZINE in this country?

    I would make jokes about wanting a MeMe Roth flavored donut, but I’m pretty sure it would be bitter and dry.

  229. Oh, and also, for my dinner, I ate potatoes, chicken, and white cabbage. I also drank Coke, with real sugar (white!) and lemon (the inside is white)! I was nervous to add rice, since that would be my sixth white food, but I poured yummy yummy curry sauce over it, turning it orange, which is an okay color. Problem solved.

  230. I’ve decided to lend my own unique skills to the movement…

    I saw that in the Technocrati stats earlier when looking for something else, and was wondering if that was a parody. :)

  231. @Rachel:

    You mean they don’t award medical degrees for participation? That hardly seems fair. I think Meme should be made an honorary Doctor of Involvement for all her hard work in the field of sitting adjacent to medical people.

  232. Absolutely fantastic! You ladies rocked so hard, and looked so much nicer than those horrid Barbie-clones you were surrounded by. I would have had a hard time not kicking that clueless host in the nards, though.

  233. Meme Roth is the Fred Phelps of fatness. I’ve actually gone to her site and read it over. The only credentials she claims is that of the president of her org and an “image consultant”, which is like saying I’m a chemist because I’ve been paid to use cleaning products. According to her website, her fat hatred comes from being embarassed by her own fat family. I wonder if she’s disowned them yet, or what her parents think of her?

  234. I think Meme should be made an honorary Doctor of Involvement for all her hard work in the field of sitting adjacent to medical people.

    PLEASE write a blog post about that for THIN!

  235. MeMe is an image consultant??

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

    Now THAT is funny. Who would hire that trainwreck?

    The only thing that will help MeMe is a personality consultant and a complete brain transplant. The woman is utterly useless. Does anyone have the clip of her being humiliated by Jon Stewart? I really want to see that.

    Those Fox hosts were complete assholes. If he asked “You’re HEALTHY???” one more time….. clearly, he was uncomfortable with the topic and was trying to create some sort of “incredulousness” to the whole fatness issue.

    Someone asked “why didn’t anyone ask Meme and the Doc for their height and weight.” Excellent point. I’m sure they would have lied.

  236. @kateharding: I’m torn between mentioning her directly in a post advocating for that, or inventing a contributor named Mome Rath and listing that among her “credentials.”

  237. Congratulations, ladies. I watched it and you came across so well. I sent the Youtube links around to everyone I know.

    “Oh – and can you believe I GAVE MY WEIGHT ON NATIONAL TELEVISION!!!!!!!”

    Of all the things that you guys said that we little folk can be proud of, the fact that you gave your numbers on t.v. — AND NOBODY DIED — made me just fucking beam. :-) Nice work.

  238. Does anyone have the clip of her being humiliated by Jon Stewart? I really want to see that.
    I checked YouTube, but TDS is pretty efficient when it comes to removing clips from their show. If it was up there, it probably got removed. I’d still like to see it, though.

  239. Whoops. You’re right about the president thing Kate. As for the nutritionist title: Maybe she was “Given” the title to make it seem as if she has more power? I heard it a few times I think (Besides the “ZOMG T3H OBESITY EXPERT” who might not even have a degree in ANYTHING! lol)
    I’m going to go look around for credentials, but Meme made a movie! lol
    http://imdb.com/title/tt0903660/
    And oh look: NAAO shirts!
    http://www.cafepress.com/naao
    Shirts with the word “Thin” printed in different languages. It’s like they think Size Acceptance is t3h 1337 3VIL cult, BUT THEY’RE RESPONDING LIKE A CULT! LOL!!!

    Is it true that the Doctor is a gynecologist? *Dies Laughing* Titles are everything. *Headdesk* I knew she wasn’t credible. She’s just a right hand woman for Meme.

  240. Oh, just for the record… After the show Mo and I and our THIN husbands went out and totally broke every single one of the good doctor’s rules, yo.

    Well, except for the alcohol, of course, since my hubby and I don’t drink. BUT WE ATE POTATOES AND NOW WE’RE GONNA DIE.

  241. Comment to Linda: Yeah, you’re misreading me. I’m fat. My exhusband, who I still live with, is 400 pounds. My kids are chunky. (Just told my youngest is also. She looks thin to me.) My mother and brother are morbidly obese. I know a lot about fat. I know a lot about the attractiveness of fat… if not fat itself, those qualities in fat people that make them desirable. They’re OFTEN funny, pleasure-seekers, relaxed (if not lazy)… great lays, let’s just say it. If you’re not visually oriented, they’re a great field day of pleasure until they begin pissing you off, and often, when they piss you off, it has something to do with an aspect or multiple aspects of pleasure seeking that dismiss and disrespect someone else.

    It’s kind of like Kate Harding deleting any post that consents with her opinions, though she has that right.

    I know fat pretty well, Linda. Think I’ve seen it from “both sides now.” Think I understand what it is better than the doctors, in fact. Some of us have that immovable hardiness, and all the comments from doctors or sickly skinny people or people with appearance hang-ups don’t move our immovable hardiness. Old age or a horriffic accident has to come along to break us. Doctors aren’t examing that and coming up with theories yet. Matter of time, I suppose.

    Anyway, just saying, there are two sides to the story. If not more. Eight sides. Or maybe a side for every living fat person.

    We’re fat, I think, because we like food a lot and can get it very easily. We seek pleasure and all the well intended advice is trash. If the doctors want to measure all this, and come up with theories and ideas and counter-measures, they can. Doesn’t have much impact on those of us who just WANT to eat and find we can’t stop, despite well intended doctor-babble.

    But for my exhusband, I want him to be able to change. He’s falling under himself. And I want my kids to have more choices than my ex and I are cabable of giving them at this time.

  242. I think every post I’ve submitted to the Fatosphere has been deleted.

    Maybe it’s because your posts are typically incoherent and hate-filled. You talk about fat people “stroking themselves” a lot and use the term “chubby chaser”. Do you have a similarly term for interracial couples, or is it only attraction to fat people you deem to be a fetish?

  243. Sarahlee, read this post. Pay special attention to stage 2.

    Then read the fucking comments policy. Right now.

    Then stop essentializing fat people or I will ban you. If you think you know everything about fat from being fat and living with a fat person, you don’t need our input, right? And if you don’t like how we run things, you don’t need to be here. And if you seriously think that we’re fat because “we like food a lot” and “we just want to eat and can’t stop” and “we’re funny, lazy pleasure-seekers,” then you’re not actually reading the words we’re writing anyway, are you now?

    I understand that you’re a very unhappy person, but your experience is not universal. You can be here and read, or you can air your hatred and discontent somewhere else.

  244. It’s kind of like Kate Harding deleting any post that consents with her opinions, though she has that right.

    Sarahlee, seriously, if you want to be taken seriously here, you should, you know, write coherently. Kate deletes comments that “consent with” her?

  245. Right, I mean, I think I get what she’s trying to say (in that sentence, at least), but if you’re into complaining about ZOMG CENSORSHIP, you should at least try to say something that’s not gibberish.

  246. Oops. Dissents with her opinion. Rather than consenting. Uh… Kate Harding deletes the fat-bashers. And I don’t consider myself one. Actually.

    If it weren’t for my ex, who has taken food to the point that it’s dangerous, I would let it all go. I think fat’s cute. I like it aesthetically. I’m attracted to it and fat people on multiple levels. Not sure I could even like a thin, boring guy who doesn’t indulge.

    I can say, I got myself into trouble with the person I chose as a spouse. And he’s really fat. Pleasure-seeker big time.

    And of course, it’s not only the food but other things he can’t stop when he should. The help he can’t lend because he’s so large and standing is uncomfortable. Women, too, and he can’t stop when he should. I’m open minded but when it affects family and resources, think any person with common sense tells the chicky to lay off. But pleasure-seeking, in all its forms, has nothing to do with common sense.

    Still, you know, not as though I want to live without pleasure and the pleasure of food in particular.

    All a big conundrum.

  247. SarahLee, seriously, please please seek help about your problems with your husband. Please seek it somewhere else. And please seek it independent of fat, which is NOT the issue here. The issue is that you’re a deeply unhappy person in a bad marriage and you don’t know what you want. We can only help you with that if you’re receptive, and frankly I don’t want the responsibility even if you were.

  248. I have just started to read Shapely Prose, my girlfriend introduced me to it, and this was in fact the first article I read/watched. She and I often talk about world views and there are times I am astounded at the stereotype that has been associated with weight. This was a perfect example of it. Meme Roth was so vehement in her antagonism of Rachel and Monique the way she was insinuating that even though they claim to be healthy – they aren’t.

    Meme’s comment about the study that “shows we will have 75% of people overweight or obese by 2015″ – perhaps it’s just my fuzzy logic but does that not make you wonder if perhaps – just perhaps – there is an issue with the classification of “overweight” and “obese”??? For example – I am 6 feet tall, 188 lbs., according to the BMI (which is 25.5) I am overweight. I actually did a little experiment where I walked around and spoke with people I knew (yes I know, all in a total of a few hours) and told them that I was “overweight” and they all laughed at me and looked incredulous.

    Did anyone else fall over in their chair when “Dr. Ashton” said “We can’t really look on height and weight, we have to look … and this can get controversial … at the Body Mass Index”

    That’s similar to saying “To judge how yummy this orange is we can’t look at taste, instead … and this may be controversial … we have to look at how people react to the flavour!”

    It’s the same thing! I don’t understand how they can seriously have her on as a medical expert.

    What really bothers me is that when all is said and done, those people who have a fat-phobia won’t judge that video on it’s merits, they will just see the skinny people saying it like it is. That makes me weep for the human race.

  249. Ditto what FJ said. And if you want to stay here and read, that’s fine, and we hope it gives you something to think about. But if you come here to talk about your diet or about how you know everything about fat that there is to know, you’ll be banned — just as anyone else who came here glorifying diets and essentializing fat people would be.

  250. Sarahlee, remember that many of us talk about being HEALTHY at any size. It doesn’t sound to me like your marriage – &/or husband, perhaps – is healthy. You’re making the mistake that fat is the marker of lack of health. You CAN be fat and unhealthy – none of us is denying that. You can also be thin and unhealthy.

  251. Oh, and that whole “75% of people will be fat by 2015″ made me totally think of the study that just came up that obesity has levelled off.

  252. And I don’t consider myself one. Actually.

    Then stop bashing fat people. Stop conflating all fat people with your husband. Stop attributing your own problems to all fat people.

    Good grief.

    Also, I want to have Rachel’s hair.

    /shallow.

  253. I know, Rachel’s hair is really unfair. Share with the rest of the class, Rachel!

    Yeah!

    I have pathetic PCOS hair, and I have to say, that bothers much more than Teh Fat!

  254. Haha, I do have fabulous hair. The show’s producer told us not to fix our hair or makeup – just come in with it blow-dried and they would have staff to do it for us. I went ahead and did my own hair and when I walked into the hair/makeup room, the stylist said “Wow, nice hair.”

  255. I went ahead and did my own hair and when I walked into the hair/makeup room, the stylist said “Wow, nice hair.”

    See, that’s a rational response to seeing you. Not “unhealthy” or “diabetes” but ” Wow, nice hair.”

  256. I love when someone can take a compliment and not deflect it, as in “oh, I was just having a good hair day,” or worse, “oh thanks, but *insert body part here* isn’t so great …”

    Hooray for loving your beauty! :)

  257. i’ll just add to the chorus of how fab rachel & mo were! but, ummmm….the whole thing about TEH WHYTE FOODZ…..doesn’t that smack of:

    NUTRITIONAL RACISM?

    *snork*

    (not that RACISM is anything to “joke” about — i happen to be a POC, but come ON now!)

  258. Just watched the greenroom interview and WOW it was better than the on air portion – I think taking the hosts out help a lot :)

  259. White rice has no nutritional value? Has this woman met anyone with coeliac disease, or gluten intolerance? Rice is a godsend!

    Rachel and Mo: you were both incredible! Thank you so much for being a public voice of reason and acceptance.

    You both looked stunning, and were wonderfully concise and coherent. :)

  260. I’m sorry, did that “doctor” just give people’s body types GRADES?

    I hate her. I hate her more than MeMe. She’s spewing the same complete bullshit but she’s pretending like she knows anything even though SHE IS A VAGINA DOCTOR.

    No disrespect to vagina doctors — I love mine, and he thinks that healthy habits are healthy instead of saying that weight is an “objective measure” of health. But he doesn’t pretend to be an expert on heart disease, stroke, or diabetes. He’s an expert on VAGINA.

    Also, I love that MeMe is like “you don’t even know what we’ve been saying, you should do more research” even though she keeps pretending that FA is about “glorifying obesity.”

    I really wish they’d shown MeMe running from the room (probably in tears) after Rachel pointed out that she wasn’t a doctor, though.

  261. I just saw the green room interview and is rabidRoth ever backpedaling. Diets don’t work and you get fatter if you diet, she says. Ummm, then how are we supposed to get healthy(thin) if diets are just gonna make us fatter, huh, huh, huh? I wanna know, and I wanna know NOW! We should just look at what we have in common? The only things I have in common with you, rR, are that we are both female, and we we are both human (and I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt on the second one).
    Rachel and Mo rocked and ruled on this as well, and rR didn’t look any too happy about being there and being refuted so well. As for the doctor, I’m sorry, you’re an ob-gyn so I don’t think you’ve had a whole lot of education/training when it comes to nutrition. We have to worry about our health 10 or 20 years down the road? Ummm, I was told that 30 years ago, and I’m still here and still healthy, in spite of doctors trying to kill me off with WLS and diets. Just goes to show you how resilient our bodies are. Kinda like a Timex watch, take a licking and keep on ticking, don’t ya think?

  262. I looove in the green room interview how they say to Dr. Ashton something like, “You see a lot of women in your practice.”

    So, it turns out the OB-GYN has a lot of female patients?

    Uh, yeah.

    On another note, everytime somebody spells out “OB-GYN”, I want to respond, “And Bingo was his name-o.”

  263. Yeah, fashionablenerd… I wanted to reach through my screen (and back in time) and slap her silly when she said that, right after Rachel and Mo got done detailing their actual lifestyle choices.

    It’s like, what did she want them to do? Exercise ten times a week? Cut out beige foods?

  264. I have no idea how Mo and Rachel stayed so calm and wonderful during that. I’ve got minor rage shakes.
    I LOVE THEIR HUSBANDS :D “I’m usually the one lying on the couch eating Twinkies.” Dare you to say something about that, MeMe!

  265. On another note, everytime somebody spells out “OB-GYN”, I want to respond, “And Bingo was his name-o.”

    Oh, Alexandria Erin, I want some of your wit for my birthday.

    Just a jarfull. :-D

  266. Rachel and Mo, You guys did SO WELL. I was amazed at how articulate you were, and how many salient points you got across in a hostile atmosphere. These days I tend to spend my time thinking about weight and health here, rather than immersing myself too much in the MSM coverage of it, so it was really jarring to remember how backwards the thinking still is. “Fat SOMEHOW became a feminist issue, that’s ridiculous… but the important thing here is whether their husbands think they’re hot!” “What if kids who are already overweight see your blogs and think it’s cool to be fat?” (Yeah, ’cause I know of a lot of young kids who look for validation and a “cool factor” among feminist fat acceptance blogs written by 20-something and older women. Though I wish this really would happen.) “You actually want acceptance?” You were having to combat the most basic misconceptions about fat people in a 30-second sound bite with MeMe Roth trying to spew bile at every turn. And you did such an amazing job.

    I would have loved if they had given you any opening whatsoever to point out that the fatosphere doesn’t glorify fat, it “glorifies” being healthy and happy at whatever size you are supposed to be, fat, thin or in between. (Seriously, I have never seen such care taken as it is around here to avoid thin-bashing or “eat a sandwich” stuff and it is awesome. And dumbing the philosophy down to “big is beautiful” without giving you guys a chance to clarify is really simplistic and insulting). Or to dispute MeMe’s dishonest 800-deaths-per-day “statistic.” Or to point out the findings of the Flegal study but that this STILL does not mean that anyone is encouraging anyone else to gain weight to get into the “healthier” overweight category… It’s MeMe and her ilk who are totally misusing their interpretations of epidemiological studies to say “OK, we think this result means that the ‘normal weight’ category is the healthiest, therefore get into that category and you’ll be healthy” which is basically impossible and a willful misunderstanding of correlation and causation as the smart folks here have taught me. Or to question why you were required to run down your height, weight, exercise habits, and nutrition on live TV (thank god that question didn’t go anywhere… the rest of the discussion would have been a mire of the doc telling you to lay off white foods, and 30 minutes on the elliptical is great but really an hour would be better, oh, and cough drops are probably making you fat, so use these great tips to lose 25 pounds and then come back and see me about your sprained ankle) when nobody would consider asking the same questions of my thin, fast-food-eating, average Joe coworkers, nor should they because it’s rude and inappropriate.

    But again, I was in AWE of the substantive, terrific information you guys got across. You did an amazing thing for fat acceptance by being on the show. Congratulations.

    On the side issue of medicating for prediabetes, I would not be surprised if it happens quite a bit. My blood glucose is always pretty low so far (luckily, because my grandmother had diabetes) but that didn’t stop my doctor from putting me on Byetta a couple years back, solely for the weight loss/appetite suppression it is supposed to promote. The implication was that if it also kept your blood sugar under control, then hey, great (probably with a side of “She’s fat, therefore she is guaranteed to get teh diabeetus anyway, might as well start now”). Forget that there might be negative side effects–they couldn’t possibly outweigh the positives as far as she was concerned, as long as it made me lose weight. In my experience doctors have no problem whatsoever putting you on (in my case, expensive, injectable) medication at the drop of a hat because anything must be better than being fat or having borderline blood glucose or blood pressure (the standards for which were also recently lowered) or cholesterol.

  267. I just can’t muster up any real feeling of hate for MeMe. She’s completely bonkers and ignorant, and self-appointed busybodies trying to save others from themselves are always obnoxious no matter whether the cause is valid or not, but she isn’t mean-spirited (which is why I think the comparisons to Ann Coulter are unfair.) Her hysterical fear of fat is pathetic and sad, and she isn’t very smart. I feel like patting her on the hand and saying, “poor dear.” But you know, it just occurred to me that these feelings probably have a lot to do with how Mo and Rachel appeared on the show. They were strong. They won. Well, and Jon Stewart helped.

  268. Rachel and Mo were polite, professional and admirable in every way. Thanks for taking this one for the team, ladies — you ROCK. (Oh, and you’re gorgeous.)

  269. It’s like, what did she want them to do? Exercise ten times a week? Cut out beige foods?

    No, she just wanted them to STOP LYING.

    Which they must have been.

    Because the way you treat your body shows in your body, or something. Even though diets don’t work.

  270. Okay, first thoughts on watching this: I knew there was a reason I stopped watching television years ago.

    Second thoughts: The male presenter’s attitude toward Rachel and Monique was patronising, scornful, and unbelievably condescending. His question of “and you want to be accepted?” made my hackles stand up, and as for his “hearing from their husbands about what they think of their wives” – I have not in my life heard such a load of patronising and patriarchal horseshit. If that’s the standard of television and public debate in the US, I’m glad I don’t live there.

    Just out of interest – has anyone checked the show’s website to see whether they’ve posted the health data (height, weight, cholesterol, diabetes screening, heart disease indicators etc) for the male presenter? Or is he protected from such questions through the possession of (or by being) a prick?

    Third thoughts: Whatever MeMe Roth is on, it sounds like she needs to reduce the dose. Or maybe change formulas. Maybe change shrinks, too, since the current one obviously can’t medicate her paranoia adequately.

    As for that doctor, she’s full of crap. Everyone knows the real killer is carrots. After all, of all the people who have eaten carrots since 1900, the vast majority are now dead. It’s the carrots every time.

  271. I almost had to stop watching the green room video because the doctor was making me feel bad about myself. Don’t ask me why. Medical professionals and I are no.

    Plus, uhm… those statistics were NOT accurate.

    Also I find it really interesting that Meme was saying “we don’t want anyone to diet” but… how are you supposed to get skinny if you don’t diet? It makes my brain hurt a little. I hate her.

  272. If your blood sugar is going up steadily, that’s one thing. But speaking as someone who’s on medication and having lots of tests and increased dosages pushed because she has blood sugar that’s going DOWN but is above 100 (and below 110), yes, “prediabetes”/insulin resistance is treated as a disease in some medical cultures, there’s not an acknowledgment that people have different baselines, and a radical shifting of the disease definitions is considered to be a redefinition of what qualifies as healthy.

    On the blood sugar topic…an obersvation. I have palpitations, which my doctor has assured me are anxiety – I’m on a low-dose beta-blocker and attempting CBT to try and deal with it. Anyway, I went through an ECG (fine) and a bunch of bloodwork, and after being informed on the phone by a nurse that everything was OK, when I went in the doc said with a concerned look that my blood sugar (which has always been normal) was slightly raised. Thankfully, the next words out of his mouth were ”…this was a fasting glucose test, right?’ Um, no, it wasn’t. I’d eaten breakfast not long before I had the blood taken – nobody had even told me that fasting glucose would be involved. Now, this doc is a good guy, and he promptly noted the reason for those figures and said he wasn’t worried if I wasn’t. And neither he, the other doc or anyone else has made my weight an issue (or even weighed me at all!) in five years at that surgery. I do wonder, though, if sheer lack of joined-up thinking by some medical providers might not be to blame for a few of those meds, and orders to diet, for elevated blood sugar.

  273. Oh god MeMe pulled the “lifestyle” excuse. That really hit home for me as a lesbian. The whole lifestyle/disease rant had a shocking similarity to what was being said to gay people a couple of years ago (and still is).

    I know the fat/gay thing has been compared before and in many ways it is not the same. But the one thing that is the same is the whole “we need to change people before they catch teh diseases”.

    Oh and that it is a “choice” and lifestyle thing

    This is off topic but I wonder what MeMe thinks about gay people

  274. Just watched the green room interview. Can I has missing the point award? Did Meme Roth just try to go on at length about listening to your body?! And imply that anyone who is overweight is NOT LISTENING TO THEIR BODY?!

    The misinformation is hurting me. Physically.

    And did a doctor just grade body types and comment on health without actually meeting/examining people? Why do I even bother to turn up to my doctor’s office then? I should be able to just submit a picture!

  275. Joie – Not only did she contradict herself on this, she also says that we have to separate our self-worth from weight. Hello! She tells fat people that they are not beautiful, she compares them to alcoholics, she distorts studies or flat out fabricates numbers to say we’re unproductive workers and that we’re contributing to national security matters, and she tells people to ditch their fat friends. How can you separate offensive comments like this from your sense of self-worth?

  276. Ah, Rachel, the problem is that you’re trying to use your crazy Earth “logic” again. MeMe Roth does not play that game. When she says we have to separate our self-worth from weight, what she means is that gorgeous, confident women like you and Mo need to stop letting your high sense of self-worth stop you from abusing your body until it conforms to her standards. She seems to believe that you can and should consider your body a foreign, hostile entity, totally separate from your self, and then fight it with everything you’ve got. Of course, here on this planet, where our bodies are inextricably bound up with our self, what with the way we exist within them and everything, this is just further proof that MeMe Roth is batshit insane.

  277. Ahh using Earth logic. That seems to have been my problem all along. Thanks Colleen.

    Oh and Rachel? You and Mo so totally rocked. I’m still super impressed that you guys managed not to stare agape at M.Roth and go “seriously? SERIOUSLY?!” :P

  278. I’m pretty sure I had undiagnosed diabetes for years before my fasting glucose rose above 110mg/dl. The test is almost worthless for a lot of women and people of color, ie most people. Oral glucose tolerance test is the way to go.

  279. @thewellofemoness: And of course, MeMe’s “organization” is the one who coined (and TradeMarked!) the phrase “secondhand obesity.” In other words… they’re recruiting. We have to take kids away from fat parents before they learn fat behaviors and grow up fat.

    The whole “I don’t mind if you’re fat, but when you speak out in public like this you’re glamorizing it and then kids will think it’s okay.” thing… that should be very disquieting to anybody within the GLBTQ spectrum.

    Actually, it should be diquieting to everybody.

  280. Alexandra, I think those facts should remain in our minds lest we start to feel sorry for her because she obviously has a ton of emotional baggage here (in fact, it’s pretty damn good that Rachel made such a point about having her *mental* and *emotional* health – Mememememe was at a loss there.)

    But I just thought of something…she thinks they’re “glamorizing” fat. In other words, they’re glamorous! And being glamorous when you’re fat is too dangerous…Mememememe might go off her diet and have a hot-dog instead of going for a jog on mother’s day and become teh obese like her family. That. must. not. happen. because it’s child abuseandomgit’llkillme. (By the way, those comments are taken from her youtube videos, I am not doing an equivalent of “give her a cheeseburger” or anything.)

  281. Actually, it should be diquieting to everybody.

    Hell, yes! Although it would not be a nice thing to do, I would very much like arrange for MeMe (?!?!?!!) to meet Pam Spaulding, of Pam’s House Blend and Pandagon. Pam is fat, black, queer, gorgeous, married, brilliant and incisive. It would be tough on Pam, but the cognitive dissonance could cause MeMe to implod like the singing bird in the first Shrek movie.

  282. [i]You know, has it occurred to anyone that Meme Roth and her ilk might just be . . . vampires?[/i]

    If she were, she’d dress better. ~recovering Anne Rice fan~

  283. If she were, she’d dress better. ~recovering Anne Rice fan~

    And have a luminous glow, as if lit from within. And a permanent erection.

    /also former Anne Rice fan.

    :roll:

  284. lol jen in nyc, i must say my own cunt is offended that you would compare it to meme roth, she needs another word to describe her…

  285. Rachel and Monique, you were beautiful and did all us fat girls proud.

    That skinny Ann Coulter bitch? She made me go stabby. And the Farrah Fawcet doctor. Why, why, why are these “experts” just spewing forth the same old shit that has very little basis in The Truth?

    Thanks for representing. I’m so proud. Can I be you two when I grow up?? :)

  286. Am i hearing correctly?

    On the Greenroom clip she says that you can’t equate fat hate with religious persecution because fat is a life style choice? So does that mean that religion is not a chosen lifestyle.

    Her credibility slips every time she lets a little bit of her crazy out.

  287. cggirl! I am sorry I offended your vaginal region by calling Meme a cunt. Please accept this post as a retraction and a sincere apology!

    How about……… Meme is a stupid cunt?

    Sorry about all my “name-calling.” I’ve been so unhinged lately and watching this idiot woman speak just sends me…..and the mere fact that the media gives her so much airtime. Fuck! I had to go to yoga last night, just to calm myself down……then this morning I was off on a rampage again!

    Olleybeth — thanks so much for the Daily Show post. Fantastic! Because eating a cupcake is like putting a loaded gun in your mouth…….. You know Meme could get her point (whatever the hell that is) across better if she didn’t sensationalize everything. She just acts crazy. That’s all.

  288. Any math mavens in the house? Surely there must be a formula to describe the relationship between credibility, questions, and insanity. The more I see of Roth, the more I want to sweep her into a dustbin.

  289. Great job, to both Rachel and Monique. I can’t imagine how nerve-wracking it must’ve been to do this. You both spoke with admirable poise about fat acceptance, and I was completely impressed by Rachel making the strong point that the bigger issue of this is that fat people are human and deserve equal rights.

    I’m sad this spot had to focus on “health,” however, but what else can really be expected of mainstream media? It’s too bad that the pure human/civil rights aspect of the issue so often has to take a backseat to arguing over our individual health indices with complete strangers.

    And, as a nutrition-person, that doctor royally pissed me off. “Don’t eat white bread, don’t drink your calories, blah blah blah.” How about, “You’re an adult. You get to decide what to eat.” The finger-wagging is really old hat, and not at all effective in getting anyone to change their eating/health habits for the better.

    Meme Roth made quite a few not-so-veiled references to thin discrimination. Now, I personally get annoyed when anyone assumes anything about anyone’s health or worth based on body size, big or small, but to pretend that an epidemic of skinny hatred exists on the same level as fat hatred is like creating a black-hole of disingenuously flopping red herrings. And then she pronounced the word ‘feminism’ and its purported connection to fat acceptance as though it were decidedly icky and therefore cast a pall on the whole endeavour. I could almost hear bells ringing for the Church of Ann Coulter.

    Anyway, I was proud to watch you two on this segment. I’ve seen other TV segments not go, er, quite so well.

  290. Greenroom clip is linked in a previous comment somewhere up there , it would be faster do an ctrl + F and search for greenroom till you find it. It was linked by Linda.

  291. but to pretend that an epidemic of skinny hatred exists on the same level as fat hatred is like creating a black-hole of disingenuously flopping red herrings.

    Yes! I hate this argument. It would be in some ways like me insinuating myself into an discussion about racism and making the conversation all about how this one time on the bus the driver went off on a rant about how he hated white people, and it made me uncomfortable. I really hate that this is the pattern that many discussions about fat hatred take… people just start to get into the discussion and then some thin person feels the need to derail the discussion to point out that people have been mean to her too. That sucks for you as an individual, and I mean that sincerely, but it is not appropriate to co-opt a social justice movement and make everyone else agree that you as the favored body type are actually just as persecuted as fat people are. NOT TRUE. And the fact that you feel the need to make it about you in the first place is sort of evidence of that.

    Time-Machine, this could be just me, but I had a little trouble finding the Green Room clip. If you follow the link further up in this thread you have to click on the “Green Room” link at the bottom right of the page, then you will be able to select the correct video.

    P.S. MeMe, at 185 pounds I currently happen to be thinner than the roughly 205 I weighed when I got married 10 years ago. So my wedding dress would probably actually be too big right now. Does that mean I win the Wedding Dress Challenge? No? Why not?

  292. I don’t know, spaced. I was extremely skinny and weak and sickly as a kid throughout grammar school, and yet I was the absolute target for all the bullying; one of two complete outcasts. There were about 2 fat kids but they were popular. In the context of childhood, bullying takes all forms, and someone who was badly bullied, whether fat, thin, black, white – what they go through is pretty universal. But Meme isn’t talking about childhood bullying; she’s talking about the larger adult society, and in that context it is a big difference between the occasional comments of “Oh too skinny” (which really you only hear when someone has severe bone protrusion and is near death) and the constant barrage of “Oh too FAT” that takes place everywhere, every day, in all contexts.

    I don’t know, the hierarchy of who has it worse or who had it worse bothers me because of my childhood.

    However, in the larger context of where today’s society leans, she doesn’t have a clue. If she was bullied in school perhaps she’s reacting to that, but she doesn’t share too much about her personal life except her food and exercise obsession.

  293. Annie, IMO it’s not really a question of who between you and me had it worse… as it happens I was picked on as a kid–but not as badly as a lot of fat people posting here. I have had unsatisfying experiences at the doctor’s office–but no doctor has ever truly denied me care because of my weight. My mom put me on diets and made my weight an issue–but was by no means abusive about it like some parents are. So on the whole I bet my childhood experiences around my weight were “better” than yours. I am self-aware enough to realize that, and to feel really terrible about what you went through as a kid. NOBODY should be bullied regardless of the reason and it hurts just as badly whether it’s because you’re thin or because you’re fat or for any other reason. So I totally see what you’re saying.

    I guess what I am thinking of, and I know it is problematic to compare gay rights or race discrimination issues to FA but I guess I’m doing it anyway, is how I could be most productive if I wanted to participate in a civil rights discussion where I am NOT the “oppressed class.” And my opinion is, as a white straight person, my role in that kind of a discussion would be more to listen and learn and not make it about myself and my experiences, because if I really want to support that particular civil rights struggle, my personal experiences as a white straight person are not really relevant. Like I’m sure everyone would agree that the guy on the bus shouldn’t have been mean to me like that, and on some level we all agree that it is about equal rights for everyone, and blah blah blah, but by making it about me I am elevating my own “oppression” and thereby minimizing the much larger and more significant real oppression that the minority in question faces, and I feel by doing that I am simply trying to claim majority privilege and reframe the discussion on my own terms so I feel more comfortable about it. And I don’t think that is fair.

    But none of this means that I don’t think thin women face hurtful comments and judgments about their bodies, or that I don’t think these things matter, or that body issues are not a hugely important feminist issue for all women, and above all I think it is totally counterproductive to pit fat women against thin women. So I hope my comment doesn’t come off that way. It’s just that I think some potentially fruitful discussions about fat discrimination get derailed because everyone is made to feel that they have to agree that thin women have it just as bad. And on the whole, differences in personal experiences aside, I just don’t think that is true.

  294. That makes sense, spaced. I was reading her Wedding Dress Challenge blog, and wow, just wow. What really kills me is why on earth would she assume that all brides are stick thin? What kind of circles does she travel in anyway? (An ever-shrinking one, I’d gather.) I mean, it’s bad enough to assume that fat women don’t get husbands (which is so not true) but to assume that even women who are 10 lbs over “ideal” don’t ever get married either…well that’s psycho. What you said about your dress being too big now (you’re not alone) just makes it so laughable what she’s doing with that.

  295. AnnieeMcPhee: There’s a funny little portion of Wendy Shanker’s The Fat Girl’s Guide to Life (a flawed book, but it has some good parts) called “Bony Bride Syndrome.” Shanker comments on the crazed need for so many women to lose as much weight as possible before their wedding day, only to gain it all back plus more afterward (but hey, at least they’re immortalized as thin in their wedding pictures and can spend the next 50-60 years wondering why they don’t look like that anymore!)

    Sadly, I think more and more women are making it their life goal to be the thinnest (and, in their minds, “most beautiful”) that they can possibly be to fit into those tight, sleeveless wedding dresses that have somehow become de rigueur. I assume MeMe Roth assumes that most women aspire to this sort of thing (but overall, like others, I assume she assumes most brides are thin because no man wants to marry a fatty).

  296. I see very few real wedding pictures with brides who fit Meme’s version of thin, Lesley. I wish she’d get that through her thick skull. In fact I’d venture to say a majority I’ve seen throughout my life were at the least robust :) I’m googling wedding pictures (images) and thankfully, plenty of the brides are not what Meme has in mind for her wedding dress challenge. Give it a try – page two is coming up with some beautiful pictues in the Smokey cabins and in Toronto, etc.

  297. This is the first time I’ve seen MeMe Roth and I thought that she seemed totally overwhelmed by Rachel and Mo. I wonder how often she is in situations where she is challenged face-to-face. I don’t think she can handle it.

    Seeing these clips gave me hope that maybe fat acceptance actually could become mainstream someday. Thanks, Rachel and Mo for being so articulate and confident and brave!

  298. When I saw Rachel’s pre-recorded piece, my first thought was: “she’s considered FAT?” Dude, seriously not fat — seriously normal looking. Why were they getting into such a brou-ha-ha about two normal women? WTF?

  299. Sandra, Rachel identifies as fat, is “obese” according to the BMI (and is therefore part of the scare statistics), and is generally considered fat. See this post for more on why “you’re not fat” is something we try to avoid here, no matter how well it’s meant.

  300. “What really kills me is why on earth would she assume that all brides are stick thin? What kind of circles does she travel in anyway?”

    I know, she is so delusional. Though Lesley’s comment about how many brides starve themselves before their weddings (the lame-ass bridal shop lady that took my measurements claimed she didn’t want to tell me what they were because she didn’t want me to freak out and start dieting, basically, and told me I should remember that my fiance loved me the way I was. I KNOW, you bitch) makes the “challenge” even crueler.

  301. “Rachel’s results were incredible!”

    Uh, dudes? She was SUFFERING FROM AN EATING DISORDER!

    Oh my GOD.

    This is just mind-blowing how stupid Meme Roth is. BLEEEP. BLEEEEEEEEP. BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP.

    Rachel, you were amazing, and so beautiful and strong and SMART and ELOQUENT.

    “So again, you want ACCEPTANCE?”

    No shit asshole, YOU try being called names and made the butt of jokes and hating yourself every fucking day of your life!

  302. You both looked so fantastic up there on the screen – absolutely glowing! You guys make me feel a whole lot better about being the size I am (well, was – I’m currently heavily pregnant, so I’m a different shape and size right now than I usually am!). After battling with my weight almost my entire adult life, I was worrying about post-baby poundage, but now I’m just thinking about overall health instead. :)

  303. Pingback: Fat virus? « A Day in the (Fat) Life

  304. don’t drink things with calories?

    so…
    only water and green tea?
    ….

    soy milk? i have to give up my soy milk?

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