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	<title>Comments on: Sweet Jesus, I Hate Dan Savage</title>
	<atom:link href="http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/</link>
	<description>2007-2010</description>
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		<title>By: Phoenix Woman</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-37672</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phoenix Woman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-37672</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I hate to make blanket stereotypes, but man do I know a lot of gay men with eating disorders. I have actually banned one of my friend’s friends from speaking about food in my presence. He’s so skinny, and constantly talking about how fat he is. I am very proud of myself for not sitting on him and teaching him what fat really is. He’s the worst of them, but it seems like all the gay men I know spend far too much time saying “oh goooood I’m sooo Faaaaat.” I think I’m just going to start sending them to this site.&lt;/i&gt;

Yup.  Many gay men also have a tendency towards ageism -- you&#039;d better not look a day over twenty-five, thirty at the outside, or you can forget about getting a long-term partner.  Unless, that is, you&#039;re richer than God.  Lesbians simply don&#039;t do that sort of thing, not even if they&#039;re the lipstick types.

As for fat:  My spouse was morbidly obese (nearly 400 pounds!), and he did have to lose weight so he wouldn&#039;t die (BP over 180, water retention, cellulitis, etc.).  He lost nearly 150 pounds (yes, one normal woman or two supermodels) through a combination of diet and exercise:  His BP&#039;s now normal without meds, and his energy level&#039;s increased.   He can crank off twenty miles on his bike at fifteen miles an hour and call that a light workout; he&#039;s been known to do 85 miles in a day before his hands will say &quot;no mas!&quot;  

But he&#039;s still bashing himself for being out of shape.  Why?  Because he can&#039;t stay below 240 pounds on a 6&#039;1&quot; frame.  He wants to be 180 pounds like he was all through high school and college, when he rode his bike every day even in the winter.  (He gained all his post-college weight when he stopped riding bike because of hand problems just before the first generation of shocked mountain bikes hit; if he&#039;d had a bike with front shocks twenty years ago, he&#039;d have probably been fine.)

So yes, being fat can lead to health problems.  But yes, you can be also be fat and be perfectly healthy otherwise.  My spouse shows the evidence for both.  6&#039;1&quot; and 370 pounds?  Not good.  6&#039;1&quot; and 240? Still technically overweight by 60-odd pounds, but guess what?  He&#039;s otherwise perfectly healthy.

And why am I telling you all this?  As troll prophylactic against the legions who will show up and say &quot;But don&#039;t you know that fat causes blah blah blah?!&quot;  Yes, we all know that anything taken to extremes is a problems, including dieting.  But the parameters for &quot;normal&quot; are a LOT wider than guys like Dan Savage will admit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I hate to make blanket stereotypes, but man do I know a lot of gay men with eating disorders. I have actually banned one of my friend’s friends from speaking about food in my presence. He’s so skinny, and constantly talking about how fat he is. I am very proud of myself for not sitting on him and teaching him what fat really is. He’s the worst of them, but it seems like all the gay men I know spend far too much time saying “oh goooood I’m sooo Faaaaat.” I think I’m just going to start sending them to this site.</i></p>
<p>Yup.  Many gay men also have a tendency towards ageism &#8212; you&#8217;d better not look a day over twenty-five, thirty at the outside, or you can forget about getting a long-term partner.  Unless, that is, you&#8217;re richer than God.  Lesbians simply don&#8217;t do that sort of thing, not even if they&#8217;re the lipstick types.</p>
<p>As for fat:  My spouse was morbidly obese (nearly 400 pounds!), and he did have to lose weight so he wouldn&#8217;t die (BP over 180, water retention, cellulitis, etc.).  He lost nearly 150 pounds (yes, one normal woman or two supermodels) through a combination of diet and exercise:  His BP&#8217;s now normal without meds, and his energy level&#8217;s increased.   He can crank off twenty miles on his bike at fifteen miles an hour and call that a light workout; he&#8217;s been known to do 85 miles in a day before his hands will say &#8220;no mas!&#8221;  </p>
<p>But he&#8217;s still bashing himself for being out of shape.  Why?  Because he can&#8217;t stay below 240 pounds on a 6&#8217;1&#8243; frame.  He wants to be 180 pounds like he was all through high school and college, when he rode his bike every day even in the winter.  (He gained all his post-college weight when he stopped riding bike because of hand problems just before the first generation of shocked mountain bikes hit; if he&#8217;d had a bike with front shocks twenty years ago, he&#8217;d have probably been fine.)</p>
<p>So yes, being fat can lead to health problems.  But yes, you can be also be fat and be perfectly healthy otherwise.  My spouse shows the evidence for both.  6&#8217;1&#8243; and 370 pounds?  Not good.  6&#8217;1&#8243; and 240? Still technically overweight by 60-odd pounds, but guess what?  He&#8217;s otherwise perfectly healthy.</p>
<p>And why am I telling you all this?  As troll prophylactic against the legions who will show up and say &#8220;But don&#8217;t you know that fat causes blah blah blah?!&#8221;  Yes, we all know that anything taken to extremes is a problems, including dieting.  But the parameters for &#8220;normal&#8221; are a LOT wider than guys like Dan Savage will admit.</p>
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		<title>By: Why I probably shouldn&#8217;t, but do care what a sex columnist says about fat people. &#171; Mouthfeel: The Story of Fat</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-37380</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Why I probably shouldn&#8217;t, but do care what a sex columnist says about fat people. &#171; Mouthfeel: The Story of Fat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-37380</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] sought as a way of keeping one&#8217;s spouse&#8217;s sexual interest &#8212; well, then we have to talk back. And it&#8217;s not always going to be [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] sought as a way of keeping one&#8217;s spouse&#8217;s sexual interest &#8212; well, then we have to talk back. And it&#8217;s not always going to be [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-37334</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kristen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-37334</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve never commented before, despite reading a fair amount, but I can&#039;t seem to keep quiet after reading about Dan Savage&#039;s perma-diet, and how it &quot;works&quot;.  How unbearably depressing.  I have generally liked Dan Savage, but my only real window on him before has been This American Life, where he&#039;s done some nice commentaries.  But the diet thing?  What the hell?  I&#039;m a naturally too-skinny person, and I love food.  Love, love, love it.  It&#039;s been nice to read about a baseline size here, because I&#039;ve never been able to get up to a size that is &quot;healthy&quot; for my height, and I&#039;ve found it very frustrating.  This idea of a baseline size had occurred to me before, but I didn&#039;t know if there was any basis for it, other than my confusion at how I could eat with the express purpose of gaining weight and still lose it.  

Anyway, the perma-diet.  What a dysfunctional way to relate to food.  Sure, eat food that is good for you.  Food that is good for you tastes good, usually.  And not all of us need the same foods - that&#039;s why we have cravings.  Misunderstood cravings can be detrimental to health, but getting at the root of a craving can tell you about what your body needs.  It&#039;s not that weight is a simple matter, but eating should be.  Eating should be a joy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never commented before, despite reading a fair amount, but I can&#8217;t seem to keep quiet after reading about Dan Savage&#8217;s perma-diet, and how it &#8220;works&#8221;.  How unbearably depressing.  I have generally liked Dan Savage, but my only real window on him before has been This American Life, where he&#8217;s done some nice commentaries.  But the diet thing?  What the hell?  I&#8217;m a naturally too-skinny person, and I love food.  Love, love, love it.  It&#8217;s been nice to read about a baseline size here, because I&#8217;ve never been able to get up to a size that is &#8220;healthy&#8221; for my height, and I&#8217;ve found it very frustrating.  This idea of a baseline size had occurred to me before, but I didn&#8217;t know if there was any basis for it, other than my confusion at how I could eat with the express purpose of gaining weight and still lose it.  </p>
<p>Anyway, the perma-diet.  What a dysfunctional way to relate to food.  Sure, eat food that is good for you.  Food that is good for you tastes good, usually.  And not all of us need the same foods &#8211; that&#8217;s why we have cravings.  Misunderstood cravings can be detrimental to health, but getting at the root of a craving can tell you about what your body needs.  It&#8217;s not that weight is a simple matter, but eating should be.  Eating should be a joy.</p>
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		<title>By: ohthejoys</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-37123</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ohthejoys]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-37123</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My friends Gwen and John really did rig a pulley system... a snack basket suspended from their vaulted living room ceiling.  They just pull it down and hoist it back up during their tv watching.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My friends Gwen and John really did rig a pulley system&#8230; a snack basket suspended from their vaulted living room ceiling.  They just pull it down and hoist it back up during their tv watching.</p>
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		<title>By: wriggles</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-37044</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wriggles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-37044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know Savage&#039;s body of work well, but I do know media operators of his kind, they specialise in instigating these type of contretemps, to boost themselves, I&#039;m not saying don&#039;t respond, just don&#039;t allow him to use you to suit his agenda. 

This is a self-hating man that views his own (female) readers with contempt -playing the chastising patriarch with them. 
Thinks that his worthiness to be loved is earned daily through his regime of diet/ exercise, I can&#039;t take him seriousIy, he is pathetic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know Savage&#8217;s body of work well, but I do know media operators of his kind, they specialise in instigating these type of contretemps, to boost themselves, I&#8217;m not saying don&#8217;t respond, just don&#8217;t allow him to use you to suit his agenda. </p>
<p>This is a self-hating man that views his own (female) readers with contempt -playing the chastising patriarch with them.<br />
Thinks that his worthiness to be loved is earned daily through his regime of diet/ exercise, I can&#8217;t take him seriousIy, he is pathetic.</p>
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		<title>By: billsmycat</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-36966</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[billsmycat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 05:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-36966</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh my $DEITY!  I simply could not keep my giant pie hole shut on this one.  I don&#039;t know how long my comment will stay up there considering I put a giant F*** Y** on there, but it was this comment that set me off:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Let&#039;s face it people, we are a FAT nation, your glands be damned!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

To the point, the &quot;glands&quot; part.  Especially considering my doctor&#039;s appointment Friday.  I somehow lost 10 lbs in three weeks in spite of my best efforts.  This is beyond frustrating.

Dan&#039;s comments were horrible, assholish and ignorant, but for some reason it was the stupidity displayed by some of the people commenting that got me even more pissed off.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh my $DEITY!  I simply could not keep my giant pie hole shut on this one.  I don&#8217;t know how long my comment will stay up there considering I put a giant F*** Y** on there, but it was this comment that set me off:</p>
<blockquote><p>Let&#8217;s face it people, we are a FAT nation, your glands be damned!</p></blockquote>
<p>To the point, the &#8220;glands&#8221; part.  Especially considering my doctor&#8217;s appointment Friday.  I somehow lost 10 lbs in three weeks in spite of my best efforts.  This is beyond frustrating.</p>
<p>Dan&#8217;s comments were horrible, assholish and ignorant, but for some reason it was the stupidity displayed by some of the people commenting that got me even more pissed off.</p>
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		<title>By: Thank you, Kate Harding. Thank you, Shapelings! &#171; Femmeknitzi</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-36954</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thank you, Kate Harding. Thank you, Shapelings! &#171; Femmeknitzi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 05:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-36954</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] I typed this originally as a comment, but it got long so it became a post. This is in response to Shapely Prose&#8217;s triumphant stand against Dan Savage&#8217;s GodHatesFatties religion. This is a big thank you to Kate, Fillyjonk and [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I typed this originally as a comment, but it got long so it became a post. This is in response to Shapely Prose&#8217;s triumphant stand against Dan Savage&#8217;s GodHatesFatties religion. This is a big thank you to Kate, Fillyjonk and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stephanie</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-36842</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephanie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 02:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-36842</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Arwen:
My set range is about 125-140 lbs, size US8, provided I&#039;m not on the pill, and 135-150, size 8 or 10, if I am.  With 2 hours at the gym per day and pretty much nothing but chicken and lettuce to eat other than that, I can get down to . . .  122 lbs, and a size . . . 8.  (While off the pill.)

Not fuckin&#039; worth it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arwen:<br />
My set range is about 125-140 lbs, size US8, provided I&#8217;m not on the pill, and 135-150, size 8 or 10, if I am.  With 2 hours at the gym per day and pretty much nothing but chicken and lettuce to eat other than that, I can get down to . . .  122 lbs, and a size . . . 8.  (While off the pill.)</p>
<p>Not fuckin&#8217; worth it.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexandra Erin</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-36799</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alexandra Erin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-36799</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Does this mean I don&#039;t get a biscuit? Because, you know, I&#039;ve got this gaping hole deep inside me that just needs to be filled...

With biscuits.

It&#039;s a biscuit hole.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does this mean I don&#8217;t get a biscuit? Because, you know, I&#8217;ve got this gaping hole deep inside me that just needs to be filled&#8230;</p>
<p>With biscuits.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a biscuit hole.</p>
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		<title>By: kateharding</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-36797</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kateharding]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2008/01/13/open-for-discussion-savage-is-at-it-again/#comment-36797</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But Alexandra, comparing the rhetoric means YOU&#039;RE PLAYING OPPRESSION OLYMPICS! Bad liberal!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Alexandra, comparing the rhetoric means YOU&#8217;RE PLAYING OPPRESSION OLYMPICS! Bad liberal!</p>
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