Please enjoy the first three (and so far, only) trolls who arrived here via the Slog.
[Edited to add: Several people have pointed out that everything in the following comment -- which I've quoted verbatim as it came to my inbox -- is taken from the recent Violent Acres post about Joy and me. I didn't know that, since I didn't read it.* But I am now updating this post to reflect that Violent Acres readers are fucking plagiarists.]
[*Edited AGAIN to add that since she's now claiming I did this deliberately, let me amend that to "I skimmed it, read the FAQ, and heard a LOT about it in comments the last couple days." I did not read closely enough to recognize this comment as coming straight from her site. But in case anybody's still confused, take a look at the early comments where A) it's immediately mentioned that this came from VA (which is why I quickly edited the post to reflect that), and B) the fact that I originally posted the commenters' IPs here is discussed. I've since redacted them but still have the original e-mail from WordPress with the comment, featuring IP info and e-mail for the person who sent it to me. If anyone would like me to forward that to them so they can see I was responding to a plagiarist, not being one, feel free to ask. And let the record show that the first "comment" here is actually quotes from a Violent Acres post I never intended to respond to. Which means the Slog only sent us two trolls, all told. How disappointing.]
Quit making excuses! Quit telling me what you can’t do! You’re a human being! You’re capable, intelligent, and strong! You are a warrior! You can do whatever the fuck you want!
Okay, well, what I want is to be healthy without spending my life freaking out about food, and doing that means I stay fat. So I also want uninformed bigots to quit telling me I’m disgusting and a liar because eating and exercising like a normal person don’t make me thin. That’s where all my warrior energy is going these days. Is that okay with you?
“But our self esteem is in Jeopardy!” the Fat Acceptance Movement people sniff, “People make fun of us!”
Cry me a fucking river. Just because someone mooed at you yesterday when you walked across the street doesn’t mean you get to put a patent on victimhood.
And, where do you see anybody on this blog trying to do that?
Guess what, buddy, it’s not just that people moo. It’s that doctors don’t take us seriously, or treat the symptoms we come in with. It’s that the media takes “obesity will kill you!” studies seriously without ever noticing that they’re funded by weight loss companies and/or pharmaceutical companies hawking or developing diet drugs. It’s that… fuck, it’s about everything I’ve written 847,000 fucking times on this blog, none of which is about wallowing in victimhood.
Mostly, it’s about critical thinking and basic compassion.
You don’t think skinny people ever get made fun of? You don’t think people whisper about them behind their hands or constantly speculate on whether or not they’re anorexic? You don’t think they blush a little when they get up from a meal to use the restroom after they hear you quietly insist to the table that they’re heading there to puke? No one ever calls their bodies disgusting or bony or unhealthy? No one ever laughs and makes jokes about their bodies resembling little boys? Please.
That’s a lovely straw fatty you’ve constructed there, but once again, if you’d actually read anything on this blog, you’d know that A) we advocate body acceptance for all sizes; B) anyone who makes a nasty remark about thin people is swiftly smacked down by one of the moderators and usually several of the commenters; and C) many of the commenters here are thin. In fact, a lot of our readers are naturally very thin people who intuitively understand what we’re talking about, because they’ve heard vicious comments about their bodies all their lives, and they know that if black became white, up became down, and fat became culturally desirable, they wouldn’t have any more luck than we do trying to radically change their bodies via diet and exercise.
However, those thin readers are also smart enough to recognize the enormous qualitative difference between rude, hurtful comments directed at thin people and the vicious, dangerous hatred of fat people being promoted by the media, the government, and the multibillion-dollar weight loss industry.
So, if you’re fat and people make fun of you, suck it up and join the club. Everyone gets made fun of. Everyone is the object of ridicule and disgust. Grow up and get over it already.
Okay, that’s a terrific strategy. Everyone hates everyone, so no point getting your feathers ruffled. That’s exactly the kind of world I want to live in.
You’re full of shit and you know it. Having abs is totally awesome. Having gigantic bags of sweaty flesh painfully attached to your chest is not. Quit feeding people a bunch of bullshit.
Ah, here’s where we get to the real point. Breasts are “gigantic bags of sweaty flesh.” TOTALLY NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER BETWEEN MISOGYNY AND FAT HATRED.
Without physical progress, human beings are nothing. You may appear to be fat, spoiled and happy. But you and I both know you’re nothing more than a bored, angry, fat bitch.
Well, I’m rarely bored. Other than that, you got me.
Interesting how you guys have turned the statement “watch and think about every bite of food” into “obsess” about food. So anyone who thinks about what they’re putting into their body has an eating disorder, I suppose. Fun with semantics.
Yeah, you sure are having fun with semantics.
We turn the statement “watch and think about every bite of food” into “obsess” about food, because hello, watching and thinking about every bite is the very fucking definition of obsessive. Which many of us know precisely because we’ve been there, for years at a time.
You’re the one who completely warped “watching and thinking about every bite” into a mere “thinking about what you put into your body.” I think plenty about what I put into my body. I think about what I’m hungry for when I feel hungry. I think about new recipes. I think about what’s in the fridge when it’s time to make dinner. What I don’t think is, “OH MY GOD, WILL THIS BE THE BITE THAT MAKES ME FATTY FAT FAT FAT?”
I guess it’s the same way you counter anecdotal evidence with your own anecdotal evidence, and respond to this supposed “fat hate” with ad hominem attacks: Dan Savage is an aging gay hipster who’ll lose his job soon and Chris Matthews is a misogynist with a giant head. Argumentation at it’s finest over here.
I counter anecdotal evidence with my own anecdotal evidence and links out the wazoo to actual studies in medical journals, book recommendations, and common sense.
Dan Savage is an aging gay hipster, which I have to assume even he would admit. Whether he’ll lose his job soon is a matter of speculation, but it wasn’t my speculation anyway. I never said I want him to lose his job, I just agreed it would be pretty delightful if he became irrelevant.
Finally, dude. Chris Matthews is quite demonstrably a misogynist with a giant head. You’re not helping your credibility by implying that that’s not true.
And yet Dan Savage’s point stands. Eating healthy and exercising will help people lose weight.
Actually, eating healthy and exercising will help most people maintain their weight. Sure, if you’re starting out eating nothing but junkfood and being completely sedentary, it will probably help you lose some. Whether you keep it off is a whole other story. But most fat people do not live on junkfood and refuse to get off the couch.
It’s not a moral imperative, you don’t have to do it if you don’t want to, but don’t seek comfort by claiming that it’s impossible. It isn’t. People do it.
No, it’s not impossible. There are a number of ways to do it. 3, to be precise.
- Start out completely sedentary and with a diet that consists of nothing but enormous quantities of junk food. Change those habits. Watch the weight fly off! This might work for the tiny percentage of fat people who do start off that way. Unless, of course, they have actual eating disorders, which many in that tiny percentage do; that’s a whole other ball of wax. Then your best option is to seek treatment and find out that nobody knows what causes the disorder, nobody knows what to do about it, and in the meantime, you should just try eating less. That will totally solve the problem, much like telling an anorexic to eat more would.
- Eat whatever number of daily calories is required to keep you thin, even if it’s well below the WHO’s threshold for starvation. If that doesn’t work, exercise compulsively. If that doesn’t work, hate and blame yourself.
- Have surgery that will force disordered eating on you for the rest of your natural life, which might not be very long, thanks to all the potential complications of the surgery.
See? Just look how easy it is!
Does that make me a fat hater to say so?
No. I don’t hate fat people at all.
It might be more comfortable for you to label me that way, since I don’t agree with every line of your doctrine, but you’re kidding yourselves.
Sweet Jesus, if I had a nickel…
Yadda, yadda, yadda.
I was fat as a boy, ranging anywhere from 35 to 50 lbs, and when you are a kid, believe me, that is a LOT of weight. But it was inevitable when you lived like I did, coming home straight from school, going through two bowls of ice cream and a score of cookies each day as I sat in front of the TV for several hours, then had dinner, before watching more TV, and then bedtime.
So you were a sedentary binge-eater, then. Thank you for sharing your experience, which, as we’ve discussed already, is not the typical fatty experience.*
As an adolescent I lost the weight through a sensible diet and a new interest in bicycling and walking, and have pretty much kept it off since.
So, by being sedentary and binge-eating, you got yourself up over your natural setpoint range. When you started to eat normally and exercise moderately, you went down to your natural setpoint range. This is not unusual for people who start off where you did. What is unusual, statistically speaking, is fat people being fat for those reasons in the first place.
There are the fat apologists — mostly women –
Hey, anybody else hear a whistle?
Naw, couldn’t be — ’cause there’s TOTALLY NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER between misogyny and fat hatred.
(Yes, it’s true that we’re mostly women. But why on earth is it relevant?)
whose testimonies I have read online, and then the actual fat, morbidly obese women I have known in person in my life, and in real life, each and every one of them had terrible eating habits and resisted exercise.
Question: are you related to these women? Is that how you know them personally, and have gotten to personally observe their eating and exercise habits? ‘Cause that would make sense, considering you’ve already explained that you used to have wildly disordered eating patterns, and it’s entirely possible there’s a genetic component there.
I remember the cruel taunts and insults of my childhood, so I agree that the fat should spared that.
Gee, thanks. How about shoddy medical care? Should we be spared that? Not being allowed to adopt or have fertility treatments, ’cause letting fat parents raise children is unethical? Being fired, not hired in the first place, or not paid as much solely because we’re fat? Being used as pawns in political campaigns, since fat hatred has such broad appeal on both sides of the aisle? Accused of lying constantly? Driven to suicide by those silly adolescent jokesters? Can we be spared all that, too?
But I never thought I would live to see the day when people would push these bizarre points: 1) that the fat can’t help but be fat, no matter what, 2) that being fat is not unhealthy, but actually healthy 3) and that we, especially men, should feel ashamed of ourselves for not being attracted to fat people.
Well, your first point is simply true, if you believe naturally fat people should be allowed to eat a balanced diet and exercise moderately like normal human beings, instead of having disordered eating patterns or full-blown eating disorders for their entire lives. Which you might not, but that’s a whole different issue.
Your second point is only partially true, and only partially related to anything I’ve ever claimed here. For the vast majority of people, fat is not intrinsically unhealthy. Excessive junk food consumption and a sedentary lifestyle are unhealthy, but plenty of thin people live that way, and most fat people don’t. And fat people who do eat well and exercise often remain fat.
By the same token, I have never once said that fat is intrinsically healthy (though it is correlated with some health benefits, especially in older people, just as thinness is correlated with some health benefits). Fat just is what it is; some people are made to carry a lot of it, some people aren’t. All of those people, fat and thin, can see health benefits from eating a balanced diet and engaging in moderate exercise, if they’re not already doing those things. But for most of them, it won’t make any substantial, long-term changes to their weight.
And point 3 is the straw fatty to end all straw fatties. You shouldn’t be ashamed of yourself for not being attracted to fat people; you should be ashamed of yourself for acting like an asshole to fat people. Attraction is personal and subjective. I don’t give a shit what rings your bell, and neither does anyone else in the fat acceptance movement.
Regarding the latter, I notice that while fat feminists demand that fat — REALLY fat — women be considered attractive, at the same time there is very little effort on their part to persuade their sisters that a guy with a roll of fat under his chin, a beer belly, hanging manboobs, and a wide butt is actually sexy.
Dude, what fat feminists have you been talking to? ‘Cause I’ve certainly never heard such a demand coming from any of the ones I know. See above.
And personally, I’m madly in love with a guy who has a couple of the characteristics on your list there. But no, I don’t spend my time trying to convince my sisters to find any particular kind of man attractive (especially not the lesbian ones), any more than I spend my time trying to convince anyone to find fat women attractive. Like I said, attraction is personal and subjective — besides which, right now, I’m just working on convincing people that fatties are human.
Now why is that?
It is not, anywhere except your own mind, so I really can’t help you with the why.
And sadly, Shapelings, that’s the best they’ve got so far. I’ll keep you posted if there’s anything else.
*Note to Shapelings who are sedentary and/or binge eaters and/or garden variety overeaters: I’m sorry you’re getting caught in the crossfire here. Let me be perfectly clear that being fat for any reason does not make one deserving of hatred and discrimination. It just sends me through the goddamned roof when people insist that because they overate, all fat people must, and because they lost weight, all fat people can.