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	<title>Comments on: Open for Discussion: &#8220;Standard Obligatory Beauty Maintenance&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/</link>
	<description>2007-2010</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tussilago</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-129696</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tussilago]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-129696</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello,
Another late comment… 
I read the other comments here, and it struck me that none of them mentioned an interesting thing I thought of when I read the article: This guy, when he meets women who don’t make a great effort with their/our looks, gets associations to things like horror movie monsters and wild animals. He mentions cannibalism (twice!), orcs, tree-climbing monkeys, describes his date as “something that surely would have been happier hunting for truffles in the forests of France or grazing on the grassy marshlands of Canada”, and speculates that “My friend’s wife had told me that Sophie still had the body of a 20-year-old. Maybe she did . . . dismembered in her freezer at home.”
Could it be that he’s not only repulsed but actually SCARED of women who don’t care enough to follow the norms about How To Please? In the same way as some religious people with an authoritarian interpretation of their religion can find atheism scary, because if there is no god to tell you what to do and punish those who do wrong, then ANYTHING is allowed and people would be “like a pack of wild animals” (as I read in some brochure from some religious group), OUT OF CONTROL!
(I suppose he would have described me as a werewolf for not shaving anywhere…  )
Of course he must try to shame women into accepting being controlled again, if he’s scared. What if we had all that money, time and energy to spend on… anything we wanted!? The horror!
It’s funny that I read this article just after having seen the “Stepford Wives” trailer on Youtube (the movie from the 70s, not the 90s remake) – so I thought the pictures of “beautiful” women with make-up that showed in the ads were more horror movie-like because they reminded me of the Joanna-robot.  
Three things I’d like to mention while I’m writing here:
1.	Thank you for writing this blog, I really like reading it! I’ve been questioning beauty ideals for almost 20 years, but I haven’t thought so much before about why some people are fatter and others thinner, genetic factors etc (although I haven’t seen it as a problem that people look different, either).
2.	Related to another post about food and morals: Today I saw a new brand of chocolate in a grocery shop named “Good”, which referred to the taste and that it was Fair Trade certified – not to calorie content. At last someone got the meaning of the word right, I thought. (Though it’s a little odd that a product sold in Sweden with otherwise Swedish text on it would have a name in English.) 
3.	Much of the crazy low-calorie diets and drugs for weight loss that you comment on  (like Alli, which is now sold in Swedish pharmacies too! ) remind me of Neil Gaiman’s and Terry Pratchett’s book “Good Omens”, where Famine, one of the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (or, as it turns out, Bikers of the Apocalypse), spends his time on Earth before the Apocalypse writing diet books to make people starve themselves, and manufacturing food without nutritional value so the people who do eat will be malnourished too, for example with mineral oils rather than vegetable oils. (Olestra!?) Someone already mentioned this in some other comment thread. Anyway, I recommend the book for those who haven’t read it. It’s the funniest book about the End of the World I’ve ever read. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello,<br />
Another late comment…<br />
I read the other comments here, and it struck me that none of them mentioned an interesting thing I thought of when I read the article: This guy, when he meets women who don’t make a great effort with their/our looks, gets associations to things like horror movie monsters and wild animals. He mentions cannibalism (twice!), orcs, tree-climbing monkeys, describes his date as “something that surely would have been happier hunting for truffles in the forests of France or grazing on the grassy marshlands of Canada”, and speculates that “My friend’s wife had told me that Sophie still had the body of a 20-year-old. Maybe she did . . . dismembered in her freezer at home.”<br />
Could it be that he’s not only repulsed but actually SCARED of women who don’t care enough to follow the norms about How To Please? In the same way as some religious people with an authoritarian interpretation of their religion can find atheism scary, because if there is no god to tell you what to do and punish those who do wrong, then ANYTHING is allowed and people would be “like a pack of wild animals” (as I read in some brochure from some religious group), OUT OF CONTROL!<br />
(I suppose he would have described me as a werewolf for not shaving anywhere…  )<br />
Of course he must try to shame women into accepting being controlled again, if he’s scared. What if we had all that money, time and energy to spend on… anything we wanted!? The horror!<br />
It’s funny that I read this article just after having seen the “Stepford Wives” trailer on Youtube (the movie from the 70s, not the 90s remake) – so I thought the pictures of “beautiful” women with make-up that showed in the ads were more horror movie-like because they reminded me of the Joanna-robot. <br />
Three things I’d like to mention while I’m writing here:<br />
1.	Thank you for writing this blog, I really like reading it! I’ve been questioning beauty ideals for almost 20 years, but I haven’t thought so much before about why some people are fatter and others thinner, genetic factors etc (although I haven’t seen it as a problem that people look different, either).<br />
2.	Related to another post about food and morals: Today I saw a new brand of chocolate in a grocery shop named “Good”, which referred to the taste and that it was Fair Trade certified – not to calorie content. At last someone got the meaning of the word right, I thought. (Though it’s a little odd that a product sold in Sweden with otherwise Swedish text on it would have a name in English.)<br />
3.	Much of the crazy low-calorie diets and drugs for weight loss that you comment on  (like Alli, which is now sold in Swedish pharmacies too! ) remind me of Neil Gaiman’s and Terry Pratchett’s book “Good Omens”, where Famine, one of the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (or, as it turns out, Bikers of the Apocalypse), spends his time on Earth before the Apocalypse writing diet books to make people starve themselves, and manufacturing food without nutritional value so the people who do eat will be malnourished too, for example with mineral oils rather than vegetable oils. (Olestra!?) Someone already mentioned this in some other comment thread. Anyway, I recommend the book for those who haven’t read it. It’s the funniest book about the End of the World I’ve ever read. </p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: E</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-111698</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[E]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-111698</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Standard Obligatory Beauty Maintenance&quot; for E: Soap, razor, toothbrush.

Equals out to about $2.26 a month.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Standard Obligatory Beauty Maintenance&#8221; for E: Soap, razor, toothbrush.</p>
<p>Equals out to about $2.26 a month.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Johnny B. Average</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-51688</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Johnny B. Average]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-51688</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I realize I&#039;m several months late to the party here, but I gotta say, this Tad guy looks like he could be David Furnish&#039;s evil twin/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize I&#8217;m several months late to the party here, but I gotta say, this Tad guy looks like he could be David Furnish&#8217;s evil twin/</p>
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		<title>By: Bunny Mazonas</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-32996</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bunny Mazonas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 21:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-32996</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hmmm...

UK lass, so I obviously spend far less on beauty than glamorous American women do (snark at the writer, not at Americans) but...

No hair cuts from salons, because I generally just trim it to the right length and then fuss around with it myself.  I do buy cheap peroxide though, because my hair started getting darker as I got older, and with my pale eyebrows it gives me a marilyn manson-like no-eyebrow appearance.  Maybe £5 a month there.  I buy cheap eyeliner, mascara, eyeshadow but tend to save up for mineral powder foundation, blusher and anti-eyebag-stuff, so that&#039;s maybe an extra £20 every 3 months.  I use palmers cocoa butter moisturiser- totally not fancy or posh but smells yummy and works well- bought a big tub for £6 last July and still haven&#039;t used it up.  Good shampoo and conditioner, £6 a month.  I&#039;ll go months without shaving at all then go on a mad anti-hair rampage with creams and stuff so... maybe £10 every 3 months on that?  I don&#039;t consider soap, deodorant or toothpaste to be a beauty expense, as these are about hygeine.  I own one bottle of perfume that I bought 4 years ago and use very rarely.  I exercise at home and my other half does my massages so...

Maybe £25 a month?  Of course, if we count clothes as well... I go through stockings like bacon rind goes through my cat.  I HAVE to spend out on bras because I have my very own doomy chestage, and generally get the matching panties simply because I might as well go all out if I&#039;m spending £40 on a bleeding bra, but even then my other clothes are generally bought in the sales, and I can&#039;t afford expensive shoes.

Damn, what sort of women is this guy friends with?  Imaginary ones?

Oh yeah, and if men don&#039;t care about shoes (not buying that, but still) then they surely appreciate the shapely calves of a woman crippling herself with stilettos?

Of course, all this could boil down to is &quot;this guy is a twatmonkey&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230;</p>
<p>UK lass, so I obviously spend far less on beauty than glamorous American women do (snark at the writer, not at Americans) but&#8230;</p>
<p>No hair cuts from salons, because I generally just trim it to the right length and then fuss around with it myself.  I do buy cheap peroxide though, because my hair started getting darker as I got older, and with my pale eyebrows it gives me a marilyn manson-like no-eyebrow appearance.  Maybe £5 a month there.  I buy cheap eyeliner, mascara, eyeshadow but tend to save up for mineral powder foundation, blusher and anti-eyebag-stuff, so that&#8217;s maybe an extra £20 every 3 months.  I use palmers cocoa butter moisturiser- totally not fancy or posh but smells yummy and works well- bought a big tub for £6 last July and still haven&#8217;t used it up.  Good shampoo and conditioner, £6 a month.  I&#8217;ll go months without shaving at all then go on a mad anti-hair rampage with creams and stuff so&#8230; maybe £10 every 3 months on that?  I don&#8217;t consider soap, deodorant or toothpaste to be a beauty expense, as these are about hygeine.  I own one bottle of perfume that I bought 4 years ago and use very rarely.  I exercise at home and my other half does my massages so&#8230;</p>
<p>Maybe £25 a month?  Of course, if we count clothes as well&#8230; I go through stockings like bacon rind goes through my cat.  I HAVE to spend out on bras because I have my very own doomy chestage, and generally get the matching panties simply because I might as well go all out if I&#8217;m spending £40 on a bleeding bra, but even then my other clothes are generally bought in the sales, and I can&#8217;t afford expensive shoes.</p>
<p>Damn, what sort of women is this guy friends with?  Imaginary ones?</p>
<p>Oh yeah, and if men don&#8217;t care about shoes (not buying that, but still) then they surely appreciate the shapely calves of a woman crippling herself with stilettos?</p>
<p>Of course, all this could boil down to is &#8220;this guy is a twatmonkey&#8221;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Alexandra Lynch</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-31853</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alexandra Lynch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 05:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-31853</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What an ass. 

I&#039;m an American woman, and I&#039;m not anywhere near that cost-wise. Hell, we make less than that a month. 

Two boxes of hair dye every two months, ten bucks. Haircut once every six, to even the ends out, ten bucks a shot. Every now and then a packet of hairpins or elastics, but not a whole lot more. Say, five bucks every year for that. My silk scarves for windy conditions were my grandmother&#039;s, so no cost there. Time...well, I&#039;ll admit it takes longer to braid it at night, unbraid and brush in the morning, time to put a scarf on before I walk out, etc. On the other hand, my hair&#039;s long enough that if I&#039;m not careful I tuck it into my jeans, and that appears to be enough to &quot;make up for&quot; the size 24 body it&#039;s attached to. That and a sparkling personality and wit. 

As to other things, I wear makeup if I&#039;m going somewhere, which is not often. I shave legs, underarms, and pubic area because I don&#039;t like having hairy pits, I shave my legs when I think about it in the summer, and I shave my pubic area because it&#039;s easier to keep things clean at Certain Points In The Month. It has nothing to do with what men like. 

So far my husband has no objections. We actually spend more on his appearance because he likes the expensive razor and has to get a hair cut every two months.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an ass. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m an American woman, and I&#8217;m not anywhere near that cost-wise. Hell, we make less than that a month. </p>
<p>Two boxes of hair dye every two months, ten bucks. Haircut once every six, to even the ends out, ten bucks a shot. Every now and then a packet of hairpins or elastics, but not a whole lot more. Say, five bucks every year for that. My silk scarves for windy conditions were my grandmother&#8217;s, so no cost there. Time&#8230;well, I&#8217;ll admit it takes longer to braid it at night, unbraid and brush in the morning, time to put a scarf on before I walk out, etc. On the other hand, my hair&#8217;s long enough that if I&#8217;m not careful I tuck it into my jeans, and that appears to be enough to &#8220;make up for&#8221; the size 24 body it&#8217;s attached to. That and a sparkling personality and wit. </p>
<p>As to other things, I wear makeup if I&#8217;m going somewhere, which is not often. I shave legs, underarms, and pubic area because I don&#8217;t like having hairy pits, I shave my legs when I think about it in the summer, and I shave my pubic area because it&#8217;s easier to keep things clean at Certain Points In The Month. It has nothing to do with what men like. </p>
<p>So far my husband has no objections. We actually spend more on his appearance because he likes the expensive razor and has to get a hair cut every two months.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Aebhel</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-31564</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aebhel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-31564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t dye my hair. My best friend occasionally talks me into letting her cut it, but that&#039;s more a matter of clownish experimentation than &#039;beauty regimen&#039;. I shave my legs...sometimes. I use conditioner (I have very thick, frizzy hair). I pluck my eyebrows when they start to meet in the middle. I can most often be seen in shitkickers, jeans, t-shirt and army jacket. I don&#039;t wear nail polish or makeup.

Of course, I&#039;m tall, thin, and 22, so I still have to weed out asswhipes like that. Are there real people out there with real sex lives who actually expect their SO&#039;s to behave like that? My guess is that he&#039;s basing his expectations on anime girls.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t dye my hair. My best friend occasionally talks me into letting her cut it, but that&#8217;s more a matter of clownish experimentation than &#8216;beauty regimen&#8217;. I shave my legs&#8230;sometimes. I use conditioner (I have very thick, frizzy hair). I pluck my eyebrows when they start to meet in the middle. I can most often be seen in shitkickers, jeans, t-shirt and army jacket. I don&#8217;t wear nail polish or makeup.</p>
<p>Of course, I&#8217;m tall, thin, and 22, so I still have to weed out asswhipes like that. Are there real people out there with real sex lives who actually expect their SO&#8217;s to behave like that? My guess is that he&#8217;s basing his expectations on anime girls.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: thewellofemoness</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-31171</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thewellofemoness]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 03:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-31171</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;But Tad can’t have me. I’m a lesbian. &quot;

nothing wrong with lipstick lesbians!

=)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But Tad can’t have me. I’m a lesbian. &#8221;</p>
<p>nothing wrong with lipstick lesbians!</p>
<p>=)</p>
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		<title>By: Tricia</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-31029</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tricia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-31029</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;Orodemniades&lt;/b&gt;: BPAL just got a good chunk of my small holiday bonus. I&#039;ve never tried their stuff before, but I&#039;ve read tons of good reviews and word of mouth. I&#039;m allergic to most commercial (i.e. artificial) fragrances, so I can&#039;t wait.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Orodemniades</b>: BPAL just got a good chunk of my small holiday bonus. I&#8217;ve never tried their stuff before, but I&#8217;ve read tons of good reviews and word of mouth. I&#8217;m allergic to most commercial (i.e. artificial) fragrances, so I can&#8217;t wait.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-31027</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Laura]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-31027</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You have to wonder, too--these allegedly normal American women he&#039;s referring to--how many of them spend that kind of money on their appearance because it&#039;s literally their business to look like processed plastic (like they work in the entertainment industry in LA and New York)? Since he&#039;s a megadouchebag screenwriter and all that.

You know,  I used to think a lot of the tripe that comes out of Hollywood came from people who KNEW the movies they wrote were full of ridiculous expectations, but were written to pander to something they thought the public wanted.  This guy apparently thinks those ridiculous expectations are the non-negotiable, bare-minimum requirements a woman must maintain if she doesn&#039;t wanted to treated like garbage by men. 

The thing that makes me sad is that I fear he&#039;s just writing down what a lot of men secretly think, but have the sense not to verbalize where women can hear them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have to wonder, too&#8211;these allegedly normal American women he&#8217;s referring to&#8211;how many of them spend that kind of money on their appearance because it&#8217;s literally their business to look like processed plastic (like they work in the entertainment industry in LA and New York)? Since he&#8217;s a megadouchebag screenwriter and all that.</p>
<p>You know,  I used to think a lot of the tripe that comes out of Hollywood came from people who KNEW the movies they wrote were full of ridiculous expectations, but were written to pander to something they thought the public wanted.  This guy apparently thinks those ridiculous expectations are the non-negotiable, bare-minimum requirements a woman must maintain if she doesn&#8217;t wanted to treated like garbage by men. </p>
<p>The thing that makes me sad is that I fear he&#8217;s just writing down what a lot of men secretly think, but have the sense not to verbalize where women can hear them.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-31012</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/12/19/open-for-discussion-1700-a-month-on-hygiene/#comment-31012</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] I am the vainest woman I know, and I don’t spend nearly that much on beauty. I don’t ever intend to spend anymore than what makes me happy. The same goes for any other intelligent and sane women I know. If you need more evidence, read the comments here. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I am the vainest woman I know, and I don’t spend nearly that much on beauty. I don’t ever intend to spend anymore than what makes me happy. The same goes for any other intelligent and sane women I know. If you need more evidence, read the comments here. [...]</p>
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