Sandy, I “agree” with your analysis (or I should say, “makes sense to me!” because I am certainly no expert in this area), appreciate the care you took in examining the study findings, and take your point that eating “right” for 8 years should certainly have dramatic health effects if popular beliefs about nutrition were true. Of course immediately people (like in this thread) look at these results and start going “but it’s too late, they already ruined their health by the time menopause rolls around!” I do think some kind of pie-in-the-sky cradle-to-grave study would be the only way to really know whether this is true or not, because maybe it is… but by no means should that kind of evidence-free hypothesis be brought forward as proven fact. People just really, really need to believe that they can orchestrate their health outcome by being “good.”

I definitely agree that if being fat and eating poorly were as bad for you as the public believes (though that is likely not possible since NOTHING could be bad enough to warrant the current mass hysteria) then a study like this should have no problem producing clear-cut, scary results. The results can be nitpicked but it seems that nutrition is at the very least much less significant to health than the public thinks. Not that most people will be willing to consider this possibility.

Good point, Sandy!

Kate’s point she made yesterday at 9:24 is critical to understand in how clinical trials are designed. Not to mention, it makes a good point for us to remember whenever we’re tempted to believe our foods are hurting us. It’s so popular to believe that a single bite or small % of something “bad” will hurt us, yet we are to believe that a decade of eating “good” stuff (even if not perfectly) will still not show any health benefits? I think not. And neither did these hundreds of nutritional experts at the 40 centers across the country who designed and conducted this study. If they’d believed otherwise, then the entire country should be demanding our $415 million back! And, it’s heartbreaking to think that all of these women gave up 8 years of their lives for science, only to have it all disregarded.

PS. These women were not that old! :-)

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Amen, exactly what I was thinking when I was reading the comments about “But what about people getting less healthy when they switch to the Western diet?”

The study was about prevention of chronic diseases in the future. HAES is about feeling and functioning well now.

And, I actually don’t believe that people all over the world are necessarily switching to a western diet as they are exposed to western culture. What else comes with western culture? High stress levels. Materialism. Extreme self consciousness. Relationships becoming less central to people’s lives. I think those are more likely to be affecting people’s health any change in their eating habits.

Just to be clear, I personally am not on board with the idea that the Food Pyramid is total crap (and jumping from “Well, the low-fat diet doesn’t work but now we all know that it’s good fats and low carbs that is best!” strikes me as sort of a desperate need to believe that *some* diet must be the key to health, and also seems founded on current “common knowledge” rather than established fact–if that didn’t improve people’s health either then what would you do next?), but I think that is a legitimate complaint that people could make about the study. So large and well-designed though it may be to answer the specific questions it was asking, I’m not sure this study is anything like the last word on the role of nutrition in health. I certainly agree that many of us have gotten this regrettable idea somewhere that we can eat our way to immortality (and, conversely, into an early grave) which is certainly wrong. You can’t control how your life goes based on what you eat. I feel horrible for people who think this way and then get sick, because the guilt and feelings of betrayal must be crushing. The way the mainstream media reports on nutrition is largely to blame for this IMO.

The weight component of the study, however, is REALLY interesting. These women were eating 361 kcal/day less than they had previously, over a period of 8 YEARS, and their weight DID NOT CHANGE? This is probably not something most of us here are surprised to see, but it would be HUGE if society as a whole would really take it in and sit with it for a while. I agree with Amanda that it is probably natural for post-menopausal women to gain weight, but most obesity “experts” fight that concept tooth and nail these days and assure us that you don’t “have” to gain weight as you age and in fact if you do, it is all your fault. Why, just 50 calories a day (they insist) is enough to make you put on a pound a year [or whatever], you gluttonous pig! By contrast if you “burn off” those 50 calories or skip the cream and sugar in your morning coffee, presto, you can avoid the weight gain altogether!

This always struck me as highly suspect because–like with the “5 lbs overweight is a health risk” claim–how can you really believe you know your “needed” food intake to the nearest 50 calories? But here is some concrete evidence that this line of reasoning is NOT TRUE for women in this age group. Calories in/calories out should be looked at from now on with extreme skepticism for postmenopausal women (well, and for everyone else too probably, but at least this age group based on this study), but people apparently find it too “depressing” or something when they are no longer able to believe that they are thin just because they have incrementally more willpower than their neighbor, or that they can control their weight to the gram if they just eat perfectly, or that they alone know the “50-calorie-a-day secret.” So I doubt this will ever get much attention and if it does it’ll be “Well, if they had eaten low-carb [low glycemic/South Beach/Mediterranean/even lower fat/vegan/etc.] it would have worked!” People just don’t want to hear this kind of stuff. Personally I would think they’d be thrilled not to have to feel so unrelentingly bad about themselves all the time, but whatever.

Entangled, I love (hate?) the image of people comparing the contents of their breath or excretions in a social setting. It makes about as much sense as thinking you can 100% control the outcome of your weight and health based on how many grams or calories you eat of this or that.

Person 1 [breathing into a portable analyzer]: Oh, I am so DISGUSTING today. My CO2 levels are up by 0.02. I am so LAZY. If I really wanted to get into the ideal range I would just work harder. I don’t know what’s wrong with me.

Person 2: YOU’RE disgusting? I peed 5 mL less than I wanted to yesterday, and I had been so GOOD so I was really hoping to see a good number. I’m pretty sure my husband is going to leave me for his secretary. That bitch’s urine is always PERFECT!

God, we are all crazy.
:)