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	<title>Comments on: QOTD: How Did I Miss this Line in all my CanLit Classes?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/</link>
	<description>2007-2010</description>
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		<title>By: Dorianne</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10993</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dorianne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10993</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The idea of the moral imperative and &quot;sin&quot; connotation around fat is kind of intriguing.  Maybe it&#039;s been written about (not sure), but perhaps now that in western culture, sex has become acceptable and not so sinful (generally speaking - leaving out the obvious question of the religious right), fat seems to be a handy replacement, doesn&#039;t it?  

(((((FJ)))))]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea of the moral imperative and &#8220;sin&#8221; connotation around fat is kind of intriguing.  Maybe it&#8217;s been written about (not sure), but perhaps now that in western culture, sex has become acceptable and not so sinful (generally speaking &#8211; leaving out the obvious question of the religious right), fat seems to be a handy replacement, doesn&#8217;t it?  </p>
<p>(((((FJ)))))</p>
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		<title>By: Meowser</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10960</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Meowser]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10960</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[FJ, that is absurd.  If your blood sugar &lt;em&gt;has not changed&lt;/em&gt;, you are not even &quot;prediabetic,&quot; let alone plain old diabetic.  The &quot;prediabetes&quot; standard should be reserved for someone whose FBS is &lt;em&gt;persistently escalating&lt;/em&gt; but not in the &quot;abnormal&quot; range yet.  My GYN, who has PCOS herself, agrees with me that the ratcheting down of &quot;normal&quot; for blood pressure, blood sugar, cholesterol, etc. is a racket to sell pills, pills, and more pills.  Geesh, I wish they&#039;d be more careful with the D-word out there.  Just habitually scaring the shit out of people for no good reason is making a lot of pancreases go kablooey, I&#039;d guess.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FJ, that is absurd.  If your blood sugar <em>has not changed</em>, you are not even &#8220;prediabetic,&#8221; let alone plain old diabetic.  The &#8220;prediabetes&#8221; standard should be reserved for someone whose FBS is <em>persistently escalating</em> but not in the &#8220;abnormal&#8221; range yet.  My GYN, who has PCOS herself, agrees with me that the ratcheting down of &#8220;normal&#8221; for blood pressure, blood sugar, cholesterol, etc. is a racket to sell pills, pills, and more pills.  Geesh, I wish they&#8217;d be more careful with the D-word out there.  Just habitually scaring the shit out of people for no good reason is making a lot of pancreases go kablooey, I&#8217;d guess.</p>
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		<title>By: Stef</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10952</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stef]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10952</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I really like that definition of health.

And healthism is a huge problem in my culture. The pursuit of health is what the pursuit of sinlessness used to be.

fillyjonk, I bet you don&#039;t have diabetes. But if you do (speaking as someone who has been diagnosed type 2 for ten years) it&#039;s not the end of the world. A lot of what people think they know about diabetes is based on way outdated notions from before there were so many good ways of managing it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really like that definition of health.</p>
<p>And healthism is a huge problem in my culture. The pursuit of health is what the pursuit of sinlessness used to be.</p>
<p>fillyjonk, I bet you don&#8217;t have diabetes. But if you do (speaking as someone who has been diagnosed type 2 for ten years) it&#8217;s not the end of the world. A lot of what people think they know about diabetes is based on way outdated notions from before there were so many good ways of managing it.</p>
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		<title>By: kateharding</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10945</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kateharding]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, also... you have PCOS, for god&#039;s sake. And as you say, you&#039;re managing everything you can manage.

I&#039;ve mentioned this before, and keep meaning to write a whole post about it, but my mom controlled her diabetes with diet for over 10 years. When the doctor told her she&#039;d have to start taking medication -- HALF a pill -- she lost it, felt like the world&#039;s biggest failure, cried her head off. Asked the doctor WHY she had to take medication, when she was so &quot;good&quot; about food. 

Doc: Your pancreas got 10 years older.

There&#039;s only so much you can ever manage, hon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, also&#8230; you have PCOS, for god&#8217;s sake. And as you say, you&#8217;re managing everything you can manage.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve mentioned this before, and keep meaning to write a whole post about it, but my mom controlled her diabetes with diet for over 10 years. When the doctor told her she&#8217;d have to start taking medication &#8212; HALF a pill &#8212; she lost it, felt like the world&#8217;s biggest failure, cried her head off. Asked the doctor WHY she had to take medication, when she was so &#8220;good&#8221; about food. </p>
<p>Doc: Your pancreas got 10 years older.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s only so much you can ever manage, hon.</p>
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		<title>By: fillyjonk</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10942</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fillyjonk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10942</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not really like I think I &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; have diabetes, but ED-FJ is going &quot;you stupid fuck for eating cookies,&quot; and even my &lt;i&gt;boyfriend&lt;/i&gt; is using phrases like &quot;unmanaged prediabetes.&quot;  To which I say, what am I supposed to &lt;i&gt;manage&lt;/i&gt; that I&#039;m not already &lt;i&gt;managing&lt;/i&gt;?  Also, my blood sugar has not changed in at least the last nine months.  (Well, it went down from 108 to 107.)

To be fair to the boyfriend, he just said, and I quote, &quot;possible health problems are not a moral failing even if society likes to make it that way for the fatties.&quot;  Which is awesome.

Ahem, hijack.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not really like I think I <i>do</i> have diabetes, but ED-FJ is going &#8220;you stupid fuck for eating cookies,&#8221; and even my <i>boyfriend</i> is using phrases like &#8220;unmanaged prediabetes.&#8221;  To which I say, what am I supposed to <i>manage</i> that I&#8217;m not already <i>managing</i>?  Also, my blood sugar has not changed in at least the last nine months.  (Well, it went down from 108 to 107.)</p>
<p>To be fair to the boyfriend, he just said, and I quote, &#8220;possible health problems are not a moral failing even if society likes to make it that way for the fatties.&#8221;  Which is awesome.</p>
<p>Ahem, hijack.</p>
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		<title>By: sweetmachine</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10940</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sweetmachine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10940</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;but they rewrote the definitions of “normal”&lt;/em&gt;

Such a perfect illustration of the quote above!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>but they rewrote the definitions of “normal”</em></p>
<p>Such a perfect illustration of the quote above!</p>
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		<title>By: kateharding</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10938</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kateharding]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10938</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, Fillyjonk, that sucks. FWIW, I think of you as one of the healthiest fatties I know.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, Fillyjonk, that sucks. FWIW, I think of you as one of the healthiest fatties I know.</p>
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		<title>By: fillyjonk</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10937</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fillyjonk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10937</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is hitting me especially hard right now given that I&#039;ve spent the last hour or so crying because my endocrinologist wants me to take a fasting glucose test to rule out diabetes.  My blood sugar would have been in the normal range a few years ago, but they rewrote the definitions of &quot;normal&quot; and now I&#039;m prediabetic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is hitting me especially hard right now given that I&#8217;ve spent the last hour or so crying because my endocrinologist wants me to take a fasting glucose test to rule out diabetes.  My blood sugar would have been in the normal range a few years ago, but they rewrote the definitions of &#8220;normal&#8221; and now I&#8217;m prediabetic.</p>
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		<title>By: spacedcowgirl</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10933</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spacedcowgirl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with you guys 100% about the strange issue of health as a moral imperative. This was always one of the things that drove me nuts about some &quot;Christian&quot; weight loss programs that I have run across from time to time. Not only are you usually supposed to pray for strength to resist temptation and meet your goals (which I guess is sort of like any kind of prayer where you are simply asking for something you want... not to get into whether that is a good type of thing to pray for or not, but people do it in other areas of their lives). But it&#039;s supposed to be a morally noble thing to do as well. WHY would it be the moral obligation of a Christian woman to be &quot;fit&quot; or &quot;healthy&quot; or thin? The process as most people understand it involves a great deal of navel-gazing, self-obsession, &quot;worldliness&quot; (like buying a bunch of new clothes) and time commitment to things like exercise that really benefit only you. I guess I always thought that if God actually did have a preference in the matter (which IMO is questionable), he would probably rather you stop spending so much time trying to get thin and perfect your appearance, and just head out in the world in your fat body, frumpy clothes, and no makeup (if that is how you roll) and do some volunteer work or something. I mean, do it for yourself if you must, but don&#039;t delude yourself that it does God any good whatsoever for you to get skinny. Unless the most important thing in God&#039;s eyes is that you be a submissive, pleasant-to-the-eye kind of wife, and that&#039;s just gross so we&#039;ll discount that right off the bat. Even when I was totally on Team Diet, the concept of &quot;Christian weight loss&quot; always seemed highly questionable.

Thinking further on this, I actually think that HAES would be the more &quot;moral&quot; way to go, if there is any kind of validity to the idea that taking care of your body is pleasing to God, since he made it and entrusted you with it. Which idea would of course be heavily dependent on your belief system anyway. But HAES is both respectful of your body and an active attempt to nourish it with what it needs, as well as an attempt to fuel it so it can accomplish various goals that you might have, which might include feeling good enough to get on with your day and volunteer or otherwise do good in the world. Whereas dieting is about what you can&#039;t have and about deprivation, and also forces most people to turn inward and become obsessed with their food intake and exercise minutes. It seems like a smaller way to live, whether or not it is really a &quot;moral&quot; issue.

Kate, I think you are exactly right that viewing health as a moral imperative gives people room for some &quot;me-time&quot; without having to acknowledge it as such.

I never until recently (based on discussions on this blog) pondered the concept that &quot;health&quot; is a mutable concept that is different for everybody. It sounds so obvious written out like that, but still I was striving for some kind of vague ideal that I guess I thought was the same for everybody. I mean, I don&#039;t remember feeling like everyone should have to meet the &quot;health criteria&quot; I sort of subconsciously set out for myself when I started exercising (with respect to lower heart rate, blood pressure, etc.), but I just assumed all healthy people did fall within these &quot;acceptable&quot; ranges and never thought about it much further than that. Now that seems pretty simplistic. Huh.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you guys 100% about the strange issue of health as a moral imperative. This was always one of the things that drove me nuts about some &#8220;Christian&#8221; weight loss programs that I have run across from time to time. Not only are you usually supposed to pray for strength to resist temptation and meet your goals (which I guess is sort of like any kind of prayer where you are simply asking for something you want&#8230; not to get into whether that is a good type of thing to pray for or not, but people do it in other areas of their lives). But it&#8217;s supposed to be a morally noble thing to do as well. WHY would it be the moral obligation of a Christian woman to be &#8220;fit&#8221; or &#8220;healthy&#8221; or thin? The process as most people understand it involves a great deal of navel-gazing, self-obsession, &#8220;worldliness&#8221; (like buying a bunch of new clothes) and time commitment to things like exercise that really benefit only you. I guess I always thought that if God actually did have a preference in the matter (which IMO is questionable), he would probably rather you stop spending so much time trying to get thin and perfect your appearance, and just head out in the world in your fat body, frumpy clothes, and no makeup (if that is how you roll) and do some volunteer work or something. I mean, do it for yourself if you must, but don&#8217;t delude yourself that it does God any good whatsoever for you to get skinny. Unless the most important thing in God&#8217;s eyes is that you be a submissive, pleasant-to-the-eye kind of wife, and that&#8217;s just gross so we&#8217;ll discount that right off the bat. Even when I was totally on Team Diet, the concept of &#8220;Christian weight loss&#8221; always seemed highly questionable.</p>
<p>Thinking further on this, I actually think that HAES would be the more &#8220;moral&#8221; way to go, if there is any kind of validity to the idea that taking care of your body is pleasing to God, since he made it and entrusted you with it. Which idea would of course be heavily dependent on your belief system anyway. But HAES is both respectful of your body and an active attempt to nourish it with what it needs, as well as an attempt to fuel it so it can accomplish various goals that you might have, which might include feeling good enough to get on with your day and volunteer or otherwise do good in the world. Whereas dieting is about what you can&#8217;t have and about deprivation, and also forces most people to turn inward and become obsessed with their food intake and exercise minutes. It seems like a smaller way to live, whether or not it is really a &#8220;moral&#8221; issue.</p>
<p>Kate, I think you are exactly right that viewing health as a moral imperative gives people room for some &#8220;me-time&#8221; without having to acknowledge it as such.</p>
<p>I never until recently (based on discussions on this blog) pondered the concept that &#8220;health&#8221; is a mutable concept that is different for everybody. It sounds so obvious written out like that, but still I was striving for some kind of vague ideal that I guess I thought was the same for everybody. I mean, I don&#8217;t remember feeling like everyone should have to meet the &#8220;health criteria&#8221; I sort of subconsciously set out for myself when I started exercising (with respect to lower heart rate, blood pressure, etc.), but I just assumed all healthy people did fall within these &#8220;acceptable&#8221; ranges and never thought about it much further than that. Now that seems pretty simplistic. Huh.</p>
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		<title>By: kateharding</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kateharding]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/09/12/qotd-4/#comment-10917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Creating your own metric of what you’re happy and comfortable with - it’s pretty tough.&lt;/i&gt;

Oh, hell yeah. (I didn&#039;t mean to be dismissive of the people I described in my previous comment, btw.) 

Intuitive eating is the biggest mindfuck ever for me. I&#039;m getting better at it, and recognizing that it really works -- what I crave usually IS what I need -- but it is so hard to determine what I want to eat just by asking myself &lt;i&gt;what I want to eat&lt;/i&gt; -- not intellectualizing it, and trying to decide what&#039;s good/bad to eat.

I&#039;m farther ahead with exercise, because yoga is wonderful for this kind of thing; the thing you learn over and over is that doing it &quot;well&quot; means listening to your body, period. If you want to push yourself too hard or try to measure your success by external factors, a good teacher will be all over your ass, reminding you that it is all about YOU. No pain doesn&#039;t mean no gain; it means you&#039;re doing it right. There&#039;s no race and no finish line. It&#039;s just the polar opposite of working out in the way we&#039;re usually trained to.

Problem is, that&#039;s exactly why a lot of type-A people can&#039;t fucking stand yoga. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Creating your own metric of what you’re happy and comfortable with &#8211; it’s pretty tough.</i></p>
<p>Oh, hell yeah. (I didn&#8217;t mean to be dismissive of the people I described in my previous comment, btw.) </p>
<p>Intuitive eating is the biggest mindfuck ever for me. I&#8217;m getting better at it, and recognizing that it really works &#8212; what I crave usually IS what I need &#8212; but it is so hard to determine what I want to eat just by asking myself <i>what I want to eat</i> &#8212; not intellectualizing it, and trying to decide what&#8217;s good/bad to eat.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m farther ahead with exercise, because yoga is wonderful for this kind of thing; the thing you learn over and over is that doing it &#8220;well&#8221; means listening to your body, period. If you want to push yourself too hard or try to measure your success by external factors, a good teacher will be all over your ass, reminding you that it is all about YOU. No pain doesn&#8217;t mean no gain; it means you&#8217;re doing it right. There&#8217;s no race and no finish line. It&#8217;s just the polar opposite of working out in the way we&#8217;re usually trained to.</p>
<p>Problem is, that&#8217;s exactly why a lot of type-A people can&#8217;t fucking stand yoga. :)</p>
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