Yeah, the average will necessarily be a higher number than the height of the shortest of the 100, unless all the 100 tallest people are exactly the same height. But the number will be much closer to height of the shortest person than the height of the tallest, because while height as a whole has a normal distribution, you’ve mucked up the normal distribution by putting in a minimum. And how much higher the average height is than the shortest height depends on the standard deviation. We have no idea how close to a normal distribution that study with the 10% minimum weight loss has, but the average weight loss could be anywhere from 10.something% on up.

Meowser, I never connected the dots until reading what you just wrote. There was a dicussion several months back on BFB I think about fat cells. Some people said the liposuction industry have heavily promoted the idea that fat cells never die, and thus liposuction is the only way to get rid of them. Someone posted some articles about how fat cells die same as othe rcells, so lipo is just BS.

If so what you are talking about would make sense. As your fat cells die slowly your set point would move down slowly. But when you gain weight your fat cells would multiply and your setpoint would move up faster. So when you yoyo there’s more up than down.

Oh, and if there were a way to reduce the range I’m pretty sure the industry would never let that research see the light of day. Why make money helping someone to permanently lose weight when you can make ten times as much making them lose weight ten times temporarily? A yoyo dieter is the golden goose they can’t afford to kill.

Is the “trailing average” Steve was talking about the same as the “set point range” you are talking about?

I don’t have any science degree or anything fancy-schmancy in my pocket to “prove” it, but I do know you can’t reduce the number of fat cells you have once they’re formed, except by direct surgical removal. This is a big part of why people who have been fat since they were young have a harder time losing weight and keeping it off than people who were slim as children and gained weight as adults — the former tend to have a great deal more fat cells than average, rather than an “average” number of fat cells that have become enlarged, as is often the case with people who didn’t gain weight until adulthood.

I COMPLETELY agree with you that BStu has the personality type nailed, and articulated it rather brilliantly. And I’m grateful that he posted that here.

But one thing to keep in mind is that I responded to ssteve on my own terms. I wasn’t intimidated. I wasn’t manipulated. And frankly, at no point did I think I was having a conversation with a reasonable human being. He came in loaded for bear, then switched to politeness when he realized the commenters here weren’t just going to get amusingly hysterical because someone questioned our worldview. Politeness then lasted for five minutes, until I said something he thought he could demolish with his math knowledge. Then he wasn’t interested in being polite anymore. It was all pretty predictable even to a relative newcomer to the world of trolls. I responded where I thought it was worth it, didn’t where I didn’t. And despite what he thinks, I am quite certain that no reasonable person could read this thread and think, “Wow, ssteve really showed them!”

There’s a difference between engaging and falling for it, is what I’m saying. But I do take your points, and might find myself agreeing with you completely after I’ve been dealing with trolls for longer. I’m still at the point where I enjoy laughing at them.

I know I’m new around here, and anonymous because I’m brand new to this FA stuff, and a total pussy besidewhich (okay, that’s not fair, I’ve just gotten beat up on the internets so many times I can’t take it any more).

I see your point. But I also knew, immediately, what BStu was talking about when he referenced “being talked to death” because I have SEEN that and it is so hard to describe. I would just tell people that there were certain people whose goal in life was to win and they had more time and more energy than you did and there was just no way you could win because they will never, ever give up. You think you are having a conversation with a reasonable human being and a reasonable human being will be persuaded by logic and fact and common sense. But people like Sssssteve who approaches you as your friend, and seems “nice” and “friendly” is really, truly only here on a power trip, because the internet is the only place he has any power at all.

I’ve watched people like this ruin the lives of people who tried to be polite and take the high road. There is no high road with these people because their motivation of being online is, again, power. They have none in RL. They are usually highly intelligent, incredibly perceptive, mind of a sponge. They will remember everything you’ve ever said and if you once make a mistake, will be able to quote you chapter and verse.

They are dangerous people.

I see your point about responding to the people who aren’t sssteve but most people get the hint when they see you’re not talking to the obnoxious guy at the party that’s trying to monopolize everything. After a while, their impassioned, urgent talking to themselves becomes louder and shriller.

BStu has him nailed cold. COLD. And I applaud you for being able to articulate his modus operandi so precisely. I have always been so paralyzed and crazed with exasperation that I could never find the words to explain this kind of behavior.

Finally, while I am awed by the amount of years of study present here, let’s remember that Bill Gates didn’t graduate college and doesn’t have a degree in anything. I work in that industry (once worked for Bill’s company for many years) and that’s a blinding example of where KNOWLEDGE trumps degrees. Being so scared of someone being an expert without having alphabet soup after their name only points to your own insufficiencies, not theirs.