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	<title>Comments on: Rule 3: Pregnancy Does Not Damage Your Child</title>
	<atom:link href="http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/</link>
	<description>2007-2010</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: blue milk</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1988</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blue milk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 03:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1988</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am so glad to read a post highlighting that most curious of double-messages about alcohol and pregnancy.

I also enjoyed laughing with your mother and her friends at their recollections of neurosis-free pregnancies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so glad to read a post highlighting that most curious of double-messages about alcohol and pregnancy.</p>
<p>I also enjoyed laughing with your mother and her friends at their recollections of neurosis-free pregnancies.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1889</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1889</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hahaha :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hahaha :)</p>
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		<title>By: kateharding</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1888</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kateharding]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1888</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tim, fair enough. To clarify, I&#039;m certainly not advocating that we return to the way my mother&#039;s generation did it. But I think I was illustrating the contradictory advice more than adding to it. In fact, you&#039;ll notice I didn&#039;t give any advice in this post.

Oh, and I should also add that when I said (very much with tongue in cheek) that &quot;they didn&#039;t have to give birth to 9-lb. babies,&quot; I certainly wasn&#039;t suggesting that low birth weight is a plus, either. I was 7 lbs. 11 oz. at birth, which is plenty big. But all of my siblings&#039; kids and most of my friends&#039; have been well over 8 lbs., a few over 9, one over 10. As the owner of a vagina, I can&#039;t help being a little nostalgic for the days when babies that big were much, much less common.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, fair enough. To clarify, I&#8217;m certainly not advocating that we return to the way my mother&#8217;s generation did it. But I think I was illustrating the contradictory advice more than adding to it. In fact, you&#8217;ll notice I didn&#8217;t give any advice in this post.</p>
<p>Oh, and I should also add that when I said (very much with tongue in cheek) that &#8220;they didn&#8217;t have to give birth to 9-lb. babies,&#8221; I certainly wasn&#8217;t suggesting that low birth weight is a plus, either. I was 7 lbs. 11 oz. at birth, which is plenty big. But all of my siblings&#8217; kids and most of my friends&#8217; have been well over 8 lbs., a few over 9, one over 10. As the owner of a vagina, I can&#8217;t help being a little nostalgic for the days when babies that big were much, much less common.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1887</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1887</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Heh - sorry about my phrasing, I can see how that&#039;s unhelpful. I&#039;m a medical scientist currently training in public health and unfortunately that&#039;s the kind of stance represented in the scientific end of the literature (though public health tends to be much better). 

Clearly, ambiguous and contradictory advice provided by the DoH is unacceptable and I think it needs to be changed. Likewise excessive pressure on pregnant women - I believe in providing accurate, clear advice in a way that isn&#039;t paternalistic, and allowing people to make their own choices. 

But the reason I responded to your post is that you wrote about 95% of alcoholic mothers giving birth to healthy babies, and the children born to your mother&#039;s generation being fine (if slightly underweight). Healthy at birth, certainly, but at higher risk of becoming part of the increasing proportion of the population that have chronic diseases. You didn&#039;t mention this and as a result your post is part of the contradictory advice that irritates you so much. 

Tim]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh &#8211; sorry about my phrasing, I can see how that&#8217;s unhelpful. I&#8217;m a medical scientist currently training in public health and unfortunately that&#8217;s the kind of stance represented in the scientific end of the literature (though public health tends to be much better). </p>
<p>Clearly, ambiguous and contradictory advice provided by the DoH is unacceptable and I think it needs to be changed. Likewise excessive pressure on pregnant women &#8211; I believe in providing accurate, clear advice in a way that isn&#8217;t paternalistic, and allowing people to make their own choices. </p>
<p>But the reason I responded to your post is that you wrote about 95% of alcoholic mothers giving birth to healthy babies, and the children born to your mother&#8217;s generation being fine (if slightly underweight). Healthy at birth, certainly, but at higher risk of becoming part of the increasing proportion of the population that have chronic diseases. You didn&#8217;t mention this and as a result your post is part of the contradictory advice that irritates you so much. </p>
<p>Tim</p>
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		<title>By: kateharding</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1885</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kateharding]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 12:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1885</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;stress caused by a uterine environment that is not optimal can nevertheless result in an increased risk of adult disease
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Tim, that kind of statement is exactly what the article I referred to is talking about. 
I don’t think anyone reading this blog is ignorant of all the things that will supposedly create an “optimal uterine environment.” My female readers are the kind of people who, if they become pregnant and choose to have the baby, will read every book and website under the sun about how to give the fetus and then the baby the best opportunity for good lifetime health. That’s A. 
B) Even women who aren’t keeners like that do not generally have adversarial relationships with their fetuses and babies. 
C) One of the things that causes a &lt;i&gt;great&lt;/i&gt; deal of stress on pregnant women and mothers is the pressure to do everything perfectly for the fetus/baby/child, and the guilt about being a bad mom if they slip up. That stress has negative physiological and emotional consequences for both mother and child.
D) The advice given to pregnant women is often maddeningly contradictory, as the article I&#039;m discussing clearly illustrates. You quote one source. There are a LOT of others to consider.
E) Women are human beings, not incubators, period. Fetuses do not develop in “uterine environments,” optimal or otherwise. They develop inside human beings. That’s the point.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>stress caused by a uterine environment that is not optimal can nevertheless result in an increased risk of adult disease
</p></blockquote>
<p>Tim, that kind of statement is exactly what the article I referred to is talking about.<br />
I don’t think anyone reading this blog is ignorant of all the things that will supposedly create an “optimal uterine environment.” My female readers are the kind of people who, if they become pregnant and choose to have the baby, will read every book and website under the sun about how to give the fetus and then the baby the best opportunity for good lifetime health. That’s A.<br />
B) Even women who aren’t keeners like that do not generally have adversarial relationships with their fetuses and babies.<br />
C) One of the things that causes a <i>great</i> deal of stress on pregnant women and mothers is the pressure to do everything perfectly for the fetus/baby/child, and the guilt about being a bad mom if they slip up. That stress has negative physiological and emotional consequences for both mother and child.<br />
D) The advice given to pregnant women is often maddeningly contradictory, as the article I&#8217;m discussing clearly illustrates. You quote one source. There are a LOT of others to consider.<br />
E) Women are human beings, not incubators, period. Fetuses do not develop in “uterine environments,” optimal or otherwise. They develop inside human beings. That’s the point.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1883</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 10:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1883</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I&#039;m sympathetic to the difficulties faced by pregnant women, it&#039;s important to remember that the environment a foetus develops in not only affects its health at the time, but also has potential consequences for the health of the child throughout its life.

Low birth weight is linked with an increased risk of adult coronary artery disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension and stroke, an association known as the fetal origins hypothesis first proposed by Barker about 10 years ago. Unfortunately it is also thought that even if the baby&#039;s birth weight is not afffected, stress caused by a uterine environment that is not optimal can nevertheless result in an increased risk of adult disease.

So while I am uncomfortable with the sometimes hectoring attitude adopted by the medical profession and media towards pregnant women, it is important that sufficient information is provided to enable expectant mothers to make informed decisions about matters that will affect the lifetime health of their unborn child.

Tim

[Fetal origins of postnatal health and disease; R Harding, Early Human Development Volume 81, Issue 9, September 2005, Pages 721-722]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I&#8217;m sympathetic to the difficulties faced by pregnant women, it&#8217;s important to remember that the environment a foetus develops in not only affects its health at the time, but also has potential consequences for the health of the child throughout its life.</p>
<p>Low birth weight is linked with an increased risk of adult coronary artery disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension and stroke, an association known as the fetal origins hypothesis first proposed by Barker about 10 years ago. Unfortunately it is also thought that even if the baby&#8217;s birth weight is not afffected, stress caused by a uterine environment that is not optimal can nevertheless result in an increased risk of adult disease.</p>
<p>So while I am uncomfortable with the sometimes hectoring attitude adopted by the medical profession and media towards pregnant women, it is important that sufficient information is provided to enable expectant mothers to make informed decisions about matters that will affect the lifetime health of their unborn child.</p>
<p>Tim</p>
<p>[Fetal origins of postnatal health and disease; R Harding, Early Human Development Volume 81, Issue 9, September 2005, Pages 721-722]</p>
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		<title>By: MissPrism</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1845</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MissPrism]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1845</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My boyfriend&#039;s mother, as advised by her doctor, drank a pint of Guinness a day while pregnant to prevent anaemia.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My boyfriend&#8217;s mother, as advised by her doctor, drank a pint of Guinness a day while pregnant to prevent anaemia.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzette</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1822</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Suzette]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 04:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1822</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Part of the problem is the communal agreement that a pregnant woman belongs to everyone. You can be touched by strangers, you can be regaled with horror stories by randoms, and you can be chastised for the smallest action that &quot;might, maybe, ok we don&#039;t know but you don&#039;t want to risk it do you?&quot; cause the baby harm. There is a huge push to have pregnant women take in the correct amount of folic acid--and it does come down to being always pre-pregnant. If you even think you want to be pregnant, there is a list of things you &quot;should&quot; be doing: folic acid, preggers vitamins, exercise (cuz you can&#039;t get fat while pregant anymore), and stopping drinking. There is justice though in the concept that men are supposed to stop the caffeine, alcohol, and such if they want their boys to be able to swim. It is possible to micro-manage all the joy out of thing and make it just another job.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of the problem is the communal agreement that a pregnant woman belongs to everyone. You can be touched by strangers, you can be regaled with horror stories by randoms, and you can be chastised for the smallest action that &#8220;might, maybe, ok we don&#8217;t know but you don&#8217;t want to risk it do you?&#8221; cause the baby harm. There is a huge push to have pregnant women take in the correct amount of folic acid&#8211;and it does come down to being always pre-pregnant. If you even think you want to be pregnant, there is a list of things you &#8220;should&#8221; be doing: folic acid, preggers vitamins, exercise (cuz you can&#8217;t get fat while pregant anymore), and stopping drinking. There is justice though in the concept that men are supposed to stop the caffeine, alcohol, and such if they want their boys to be able to swim. It is possible to micro-manage all the joy out of thing and make it just another job.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz in Australia</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1804</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Liz in Australia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 07:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1804</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;But still, isn’t it interesting that in a time when women had so many more cultural restrictions on their freedom (my mom’s friends were mostly having babies in the late ’50s and early ’60s), they were at least still treated like autonomous adults while pregnant?&lt;/i&gt;

They might have been treated like autonomous adults while pregnant, but they certainly weren&#039;t while birthing (pardon me, &quot;having their babies delivered&quot;, because we all know that the obstetrician is much more important to the process than the mother). 

But I do take your point. Recent moves to criminalise drug addiction/use in pregnancy are taking some US states even further in the same direction.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But still, isn’t it interesting that in a time when women had so many more cultural restrictions on their freedom (my mom’s friends were mostly having babies in the late ’50s and early ’60s), they were at least still treated like autonomous adults while pregnant?</i></p>
<p>They might have been treated like autonomous adults while pregnant, but they certainly weren&#8217;t while birthing (pardon me, &#8220;having their babies delivered&#8221;, because we all know that the obstetrician is much more important to the process than the mother). </p>
<p>But I do take your point. Recent moves to criminalise drug addiction/use in pregnancy are taking some US states even further in the same direction.</p>
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		<title>By: Meowzer</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1801</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Meowzer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 03:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/29/rule-3-pregnancy-does-not-damage-your-child/#comment-1801</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think certainly some feminists who have been visible in the media such as Gloria Steinem have felt it incumbent upon themselves to keep their weight down inasfar as doing so would help keep the cameras on them and counteract the widespread media view of feminists as &quot;fat ugly hairy lesbians who can&#039;t get men.&quot;  But the fact that the latter prejudice existed at all was hardly their fault, as far as I can see.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think certainly some feminists who have been visible in the media such as Gloria Steinem have felt it incumbent upon themselves to keep their weight down inasfar as doing so would help keep the cameras on them and counteract the widespread media view of feminists as &#8220;fat ugly hairy lesbians who can&#8217;t get men.&#8221;  But the fact that the latter prejudice existed at all was hardly their fault, as far as I can see.</p>
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