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	<title>Comments on: Numbers</title>
	<atom:link href="http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/</link>
	<description>2007-2010</description>
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		<title>By: Fat and Single&#8211; and that&#8217;s okay. &#171; Eat, Drink, and Be Mary Sue</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-85715</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fat and Single&#8211; and that&#8217;s okay. &#171; Eat, Drink, and Be Mary Sue]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-85715</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] then, I&#8217;m willing to wait and not willing to compromise my sanity and health for some ridiculous ideals of beauty and normalcy.   *baby-flavored donuts &#8212; a joke amongst [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] then, I&#8217;m willing to wait and not willing to compromise my sanity and health for some ridiculous ideals of beauty and normalcy.   *baby-flavored donuts &#8212; a joke amongst [...]</p>
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		<title>By: idle musings &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A serious WTF moment</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-26798</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[idle musings &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A serious WTF moment]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-26798</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] of Shapely Prose because 1. I love the way Kate writes and 2. I love what she has to say. In her Numbers post she talks about putting her stats into a daily needs calculator. She was astonished that the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Shapely Prose because 1. I love the way Kate writes and 2. I love what she has to say. In her Numbers post she talks about putting her stats into a daily needs calculator. She was astonished that the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: spacedcowgirl</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-2562</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spacedcowgirl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-2562</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I realize I&#039;m very late to the party here (and although I love this blog, I&#039;m relatively new to it and a first-time commenter), but aren&#039;t we all kind of buying into... something... here by playing this game of &quot;Mine says X, and I eat Y, which is 500 calories less!&quot; &quot;Well, mine says X and I eat Z, which is 800 calories less!&quot; Like we&#039;re only OK as fat people if we&#039;re on starvation rations and denying ourselves to an &quot;appropriate&quot; degree.

Myself, I&#039;m on Weight Watchers and I can earn 10 activity points by jogging/walking for an hour as long as my heart rate stays in a prescribed zone. I figured it out with their patented formula based on my weight, so it&#039;s all &quot;scientific&quot; and stuff. My dirty secret is that I have never decreased my daily points from 30, even though I think my current weight should put me at 24 or 26. So, more dirty secrets: on a day I exercise, that puts my prescribed total at 40 and I am usually within 2-3 points over or under that. On a day I don&#039;t exercise, I might go over my points allowance by as many as 5-10. I also use up my entire 35-point weekly allowance on the weekend, often plus a fair bit more. Even though I usually eat all my activity points, I&#039;m usually anywhere from at my points allowance to 70 or even 100 points over it, total for a given week (average maybe 20-50 over). And I do lose weight. I could never admit that to the people in my meeting because some of them are fanatical about sticking to their points (and still gain or lose to about the degree I do, though most are a lot smaller than me) and I&#039;m pretty sure they would kill me if they knew. I see this on the internet too; almost everyone who uses those intake calculators absolutely scoffs at the amount and apparently eats much less than the estimate, whereas for me I think it would be pretty true to life.

I&#039;m not sure what the point of that was (certainly not to laud WW... I am still not sure I&#039;m doing the right thing by dieting in the first place and am very conflicted about the whole issue, and I sort of believe that I will probably gain the weight back eventually once I lose the resolve I currently have), except to try and add a data point that different people&#039;s bodies respond differently to food intake/exercise and not all of us gain on 1200 calorie/day rations. Or maybe to express sympathy for everyone who eats less than I do and still can&#039;t lose. My psyche is fragile enough but at least I&#039;ve always been able to believe that if I *did* get my compulsive eating under control, I&#039;d lose weight accordingly. I like to think I&#039;d handle it OK if that weren&#039;t true, but I&#039;m not sure. I feel guilty about how &quot;lucky&quot; I seem to be, but angry that I feel guilty. How screwed up is that?

My other observation is that in the past, I have found it WAY EASY to rack up 3,000 calories in a day without realizing it, even when I feel like I&#039;m eating moderately. I swear I&#039;m not doubting what anyone here says they eat; I know all of you are smart and I totally believe you. I&#039;m just throwing it out there that in my personal case, I really do tend to eat more than I think I am.

I don&#039;t know what any of this says, I just wanted to add my perspective and mainly to make the point about how I hate it when we feel we need to punish ourselves to a prescribed extent by restricting and exercising before we can feel OK about being ourselves. It&#039;s nobody&#039;s business whether I &quot;eat right&quot; (whatever that means) or exercise in the first place, and I have really enjoyed Kate&#039;s writing on that topic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize I&#8217;m very late to the party here (and although I love this blog, I&#8217;m relatively new to it and a first-time commenter), but aren&#8217;t we all kind of buying into&#8230; something&#8230; here by playing this game of &#8220;Mine says X, and I eat Y, which is 500 calories less!&#8221; &#8220;Well, mine says X and I eat Z, which is 800 calories less!&#8221; Like we&#8217;re only OK as fat people if we&#8217;re on starvation rations and denying ourselves to an &#8220;appropriate&#8221; degree.</p>
<p>Myself, I&#8217;m on Weight Watchers and I can earn 10 activity points by jogging/walking for an hour as long as my heart rate stays in a prescribed zone. I figured it out with their patented formula based on my weight, so it&#8217;s all &#8220;scientific&#8221; and stuff. My dirty secret is that I have never decreased my daily points from 30, even though I think my current weight should put me at 24 or 26. So, more dirty secrets: on a day I exercise, that puts my prescribed total at 40 and I am usually within 2-3 points over or under that. On a day I don&#8217;t exercise, I might go over my points allowance by as many as 5-10. I also use up my entire 35-point weekly allowance on the weekend, often plus a fair bit more. Even though I usually eat all my activity points, I&#8217;m usually anywhere from at my points allowance to 70 or even 100 points over it, total for a given week (average maybe 20-50 over). And I do lose weight. I could never admit that to the people in my meeting because some of them are fanatical about sticking to their points (and still gain or lose to about the degree I do, though most are a lot smaller than me) and I&#8217;m pretty sure they would kill me if they knew. I see this on the internet too; almost everyone who uses those intake calculators absolutely scoffs at the amount and apparently eats much less than the estimate, whereas for me I think it would be pretty true to life.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what the point of that was (certainly not to laud WW&#8230; I am still not sure I&#8217;m doing the right thing by dieting in the first place and am very conflicted about the whole issue, and I sort of believe that I will probably gain the weight back eventually once I lose the resolve I currently have), except to try and add a data point that different people&#8217;s bodies respond differently to food intake/exercise and not all of us gain on 1200 calorie/day rations. Or maybe to express sympathy for everyone who eats less than I do and still can&#8217;t lose. My psyche is fragile enough but at least I&#8217;ve always been able to believe that if I *did* get my compulsive eating under control, I&#8217;d lose weight accordingly. I like to think I&#8217;d handle it OK if that weren&#8217;t true, but I&#8217;m not sure. I feel guilty about how &#8220;lucky&#8221; I seem to be, but angry that I feel guilty. How screwed up is that?</p>
<p>My other observation is that in the past, I have found it WAY EASY to rack up 3,000 calories in a day without realizing it, even when I feel like I&#8217;m eating moderately. I swear I&#8217;m not doubting what anyone here says they eat; I know all of you are smart and I totally believe you. I&#8217;m just throwing it out there that in my personal case, I really do tend to eat more than I think I am.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what any of this says, I just wanted to add my perspective and mainly to make the point about how I hate it when we feel we need to punish ourselves to a prescribed extent by restricting and exercising before we can feel OK about being ourselves. It&#8217;s nobody&#8217;s business whether I &#8220;eat right&#8221; (whatever that means) or exercise in the first place, and I have really enjoyed Kate&#8217;s writing on that topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Neneh</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-1728</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neneh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 22:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-1728</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for reminding me of this. In grad school 4 or 5 years ago, I went to the nutritionist who did the same calculation for me, saying I needed @ 2400 calories. Like you, it blew my mind. Her response was that my body needed to maintain and that my focus should be (1) making better choices about what I was eating, i.e., more fruits and veggies; and (2) incorporating more exercise in my life. That advice didn&#039;t take then, but maybe it will now!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for reminding me of this. In grad school 4 or 5 years ago, I went to the nutritionist who did the same calculation for me, saying I needed @ 2400 calories. Like you, it blew my mind. Her response was that my body needed to maintain and that my focus should be (1) making better choices about what I was eating, i.e., more fruits and veggies; and (2) incorporating more exercise in my life. That advice didn&#8217;t take then, but maybe it will now!</p>
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		<title>By: thecynicalgirl</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-1714</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thecynicalgirl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 03:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-1714</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Scale says 134, today. I&#039;m going to own it but not be driven by it. I&#039;m also going to eat a Klondike bar.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scale says 134, today. I&#8217;m going to own it but not be driven by it. I&#8217;m also going to eat a Klondike bar.</p>
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		<title>By: RoseCampion</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-1709</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RoseCampion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 20:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-1709</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My DH recently read an interesting book, I skimmed part of it too. It was about this starvation experiment they did during WW2 to discover the scientific consequences of people starving, like they did in Europe after WW1 and thought would probably happen at the end of WW2. It was sort of an anti-communist thing, like the government thought that if Europe starved, they&#039;d all turn communist. 

But, I digress. The interesting point is that I think the lowest number of calories the volunteers of this experiment were put on was 1100 a day. This is just 100 calories short of the 1200 figure mentioned. That&#039;s, what, like a can of sugared soda? Though the volunteers were all men, who tend to have higher needs than women, just because they&#039;re usually bigger and have more muscles. 

At these starvation levels, the volunteers, in addition to the expected metabolic consequences, suffered from obsession with food to the exclusion of all other thoughts, were disturbed by thoughts and dreams about cannabalism, and one volunteer cut off his own fingers with an ax during the course of the experiment. To some extent, they were almost driven crazy by lack of food. 

And to think that women do this to themselves all the time. By choice. 

I&#039;ve always been too lazy to count calories. I&#039;ve no idea how many I eat in a day nor what I &quot;should&quot; be eating. I know that in the chaos of moving, I&#039;ve been eating more restaurant and takeout meals than I should and not enough nutritious vegetables and I kind of feel bad about that. But it always seemed to me to be a miserable existence to have to track numbers for every bit of something that passes into my mouth. The closest I&#039;ve ever come to calorie counting is the one diet I&#039;ve done in my life, which was a low carb/good carb kind of thing called the Schwarzbein principle. I was counting carbs, but let me tell you, eating sandwiches made with one slice of Ezekial bread got old real fast.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My DH recently read an interesting book, I skimmed part of it too. It was about this starvation experiment they did during WW2 to discover the scientific consequences of people starving, like they did in Europe after WW1 and thought would probably happen at the end of WW2. It was sort of an anti-communist thing, like the government thought that if Europe starved, they&#8217;d all turn communist. </p>
<p>But, I digress. The interesting point is that I think the lowest number of calories the volunteers of this experiment were put on was 1100 a day. This is just 100 calories short of the 1200 figure mentioned. That&#8217;s, what, like a can of sugared soda? Though the volunteers were all men, who tend to have higher needs than women, just because they&#8217;re usually bigger and have more muscles. </p>
<p>At these starvation levels, the volunteers, in addition to the expected metabolic consequences, suffered from obsession with food to the exclusion of all other thoughts, were disturbed by thoughts and dreams about cannabalism, and one volunteer cut off his own fingers with an ax during the course of the experiment. To some extent, they were almost driven crazy by lack of food. </p>
<p>And to think that women do this to themselves all the time. By choice. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always been too lazy to count calories. I&#8217;ve no idea how many I eat in a day nor what I &#8220;should&#8221; be eating. I know that in the chaos of moving, I&#8217;ve been eating more restaurant and takeout meals than I should and not enough nutritious vegetables and I kind of feel bad about that. But it always seemed to me to be a miserable existence to have to track numbers for every bit of something that passes into my mouth. The closest I&#8217;ve ever come to calorie counting is the one diet I&#8217;ve done in my life, which was a low carb/good carb kind of thing called the Schwarzbein principle. I was counting carbs, but let me tell you, eating sandwiches made with one slice of Ezekial bread got old real fast.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy Lebovitz</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-1708</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nancy Lebovitz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 19:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-1708</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Somewhere in _The Beauty Myth_, there&#039;s a mention that there are a lot of cultures where women get about 2/3 food as much as men--and it&#039;s explicitly framed as male privilege.

Coincidence or conspiracy?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhere in _The Beauty Myth_, there&#8217;s a mention that there are a lot of cultures where women get about 2/3 food as much as men&#8211;and it&#8217;s explicitly framed as male privilege.</p>
<p>Coincidence or conspiracy?</p>
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		<title>By: spinsterwitch</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-1707</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinsterwitch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 19:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-1707</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The amount of calories I must be eating is pretty big too.  I don&#039;t count calories well, though so I have no idea if I&#039;m actually eating that much or if it&#039;s less.

I think what&#039;s interesting is that it matters.  I am a fat woman.  Why must I justify how much or what I am eating?  Why must I feel badly about putting food in my mouth?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The amount of calories I must be eating is pretty big too.  I don&#8217;t count calories well, though so I have no idea if I&#8217;m actually eating that much or if it&#8217;s less.</p>
<p>I think what&#8217;s interesting is that it matters.  I am a fat woman.  Why must I justify how much or what I am eating?  Why must I feel badly about putting food in my mouth?</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-1704</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kelly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 18:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-1704</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow.  My results were 3226 calories.  Wow.

Right now I&#039;m eating 1400-1800 a day.  Makes me think maybe that&#039;s not quite enough.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  My results were 3226 calories.  Wow.</p>
<p>Right now I&#8217;m eating 1400-1800 a day.  Makes me think maybe that&#8217;s not quite enough.</p>
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		<title>By: BStu</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-1701</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BStu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 18:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kateharding.net/2007/05/23/numbers/#comment-1701</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No one would really notice that unless they were of a size where they got a nonsensical response.  Nothing on the site makes it clear that its really just a caloric maintainance calculator, so if the result seemed within reality, there would be no way to tell that others would get insane suggestions.  I mean, I thought my 4,000 was crazy and then someone busts out 8,700.  Its scary because so many people have unwavering faith in fat as a mathematical construct.  So many fat hostile individuals really do think its that simple.  If we protest, they assume our bodies prove us to be liars because they refuse to accept that the formulas just don&#039;t work.  It is amazing for me to see what they think my body equals.  It says a lot about why so many feel so justified in making sweeping generalizations.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one would really notice that unless they were of a size where they got a nonsensical response.  Nothing on the site makes it clear that its really just a caloric maintainance calculator, so if the result seemed within reality, there would be no way to tell that others would get insane suggestions.  I mean, I thought my 4,000 was crazy and then someone busts out 8,700.  Its scary because so many people have unwavering faith in fat as a mathematical construct.  So many fat hostile individuals really do think its that simple.  If we protest, they assume our bodies prove us to be liars because they refuse to accept that the formulas just don&#8217;t work.  It is amazing for me to see what they think my body equals.  It says a lot about why so many feel so justified in making sweeping generalizations.</p>
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